Battery upgrade upon replacement

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Ohmer

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Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
6
Anyone know if VW will offer an upgrade to 35kW when the time comes for a 24kw pack needs to be replaced? It would seem logical, as long as the MQB module architecture is maintained.

Thanks!
 
The answer is a 90% no.

Who's going to pay for the difference, might as well buy another car. (Labor, battery cost, rewiring, etc)
 
I think the answer is a resounding 'maybe'...

If the batteries in the current egolfs start to fail before the 8 year mark, does VW have a stockpile of 24kwh batteries sitting around? maybe...

I thought I read the new higher capacity pack is the same format as the current pack, so it should be a software mod only to support the higher capacity.

Although, with VW, we are talking about a company that advertises a 'Modular Infotainment Platform' (MIB/MIB2) but doesn't allow you to upgrade any of the modules... or teases concept vehicle after concept vehicle but then either never produces them or brings them to limited markets...

So I'm sticking with maybe, but expect to be disappointed!
 
I recently found out there's a 3rd party that will upgrade batteries in a BMW i3 from 60 Ah to 94 Ah for around $8,000 USD. That makes financial sense because you can a get a 2014 i3 BEV for under $20k vs. the $50k a similarly equipt 2017 model would set you back.

With the e-Golf, the price gap between new and used is much slimmer, assuming the 36 kWh models sell for $30-37k MSRP. So even if possible, it wouldn't be all that practical, at least not now.
 
johnnylingo said:
I recently found out there's a 3rd party that will upgrade batteries in a BMW i3 from 60 Ah to 94 Ah for around $8,000 USD. That makes financial sense because you can a get a 2014 i3 BEV for under $20k vs. the $50k a similarly equipt 2017 model would set you back.

With the e-Golf, the price gap between new and used is much slimmer, assuming the 36 kWh models sell for $30-37k MSRP. So even if possible, it wouldn't be all that practical, at least not now.

So who is this mysterious 3rd party supplying after-market batteries for i3's?
 
OregonvwFarmer said:
johnnylingo said:
I recently found out there's a 3rd party that will upgrade batteries in a BMW i3 from 60 Ah to 94 Ah for around $8,000 USD. That makes financial sense because you can a get a 2014 i3 BEV for under $20k vs. the $50k a similarly equipt 2017 model would set you back.

With the e-Golf, the price gap between new and used is much slimmer, assuming the 36 kWh models sell for $30-37k MSRP. So even if possible, it wouldn't be all that practical, at least not now.

So who is this mysterious 3rd party supplying after-market batteries for i3's?

BMW. Really... it's BMW themselves which will soon offer the 96ah battery upgrade to owners of older i3s.

you can get dirt cheap 3 year old i3s in Canada for $23,000 compare to brand new ones around $51,000. Throw in a $9,000 battery upgrade which takes the i3 to about 183km of range.

So not quite as good as a brand new 2017 eGolf but if you insist on an i3, it may be a better deal than a new one.

2017 eGolf, 201 km @ 35,995 - 12389 incentive = 23,606
2017 i3 , 183km @ 51,000 - 12389 incentive = 38,611
2014 i3, 183km @ 23000 + 96ah upgrade @ 9000 = 32,000

Incentive for Ontario, Canada
 
That doesn't seem like good economy. $6K difference in exchange for three year older technology and worse interest rates.

In any case, I would not expect that from VW. They aren't going to offer larger packs. In fact, I think they will change the chassis from MQB by then anyway.
 
Danke euch allen, for all the informative discussion!
Just curious, what is meant by the mention of
60, 93Ah batteries for the i3? That's not very much
capacity, as a single, typical car starter battery has
around 100Ah.
 
bizzle said:
That doesn't seem like good economy. $6K difference in exchange for three year older technology and worse interest rates.

In any case, I would not expect that from VW. They aren't going to offer larger packs. In fact, I think they will change the chassis from MQB by then anyway.

The ID series won't be ready for a while.

VW has pretty much unofficially announced a 48kw/h battery for the eGolf in 2019. That'll be the Mk8 Golf platform.
 
Ohmer said:
Danke euch allen, for all the informative discussion!
Just curious, what is meant by the mention of
60, 93Ah batteries for the i3? That's not very much
capacity, as a single, typical car starter battery has
around 100Ah.

You're completely wrong with that. The typical car battery is about 1.3 AH. The battery will allow a momentary power draw of up 100 Amps, like turning the starter, but it only lasts a few seconds.

The 93 AH battery is exactly what it says "Amps per Hour". What you don't know is the voltage. It's 354 Volts for the i3. Which in terms of kwh, which is what every other manufacturer uses, it's only a 33kwh battery.

Basically, it's a marketing trick. By using the AH, you can use larger numbers on your ads. Especially if you leave out the voltage on the ads, which they do. People with little knowledge of electricity will think the battery has a higher capacity than it really does.

Some tech info:

a Amps (A) X v Volts (V) = w Watts (W)
ah Amps/Hour (AH) X v Volts (V) = wh Watt/Hour (wh)

So for the i3: 93AH X 354V = 32,922 wh. Which is in fact 32.922 kwh, rounded to 33kwh.

Not as much as the eGolf. And since you pay $50,000 for that vs the eGolf's $36,000 (In Canada), the i3 isn't cost effective.
If you look at trader.ca, you'll see lots of i3 listed. I talked to 2 of them and they all agree they overpaid for lots of range anxiety. And those were the 60AH batteries. No wonder people are getting rid of them.

If you have $50,000 to spend on an electric car, better buy the 60kwh Chevy Bolt Premier (fully optioned out) in Canada.
 
I was going to make the same correction except that you made a mistake. It's not "amps per hour" it's Amp-Hours as in Amps Times Hours. Likewise, it's not A/h it's Ah.

A * V = W (power)
Ah * V = Wh (energy)
Wh / 1000 = kWh (energy)

One more correction, BMW claims 94 Ah.

By the way, EPA docs show that the Tesla Model 3 Long Range has a 230Ah battery pack.
 
miimura said:
I was going to make the same correction except that you made a mistake. It's not "amps per hour" it's Amp-Hours as in Amps Times Hours.

Yup. That's what I meant. doh! I know better than that.
 
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