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 Post subject: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:27 am
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We put a deposit down on a 2019 SEL e-golf. Love the car. We were aware on the decrease in range with low ambient conditions. But I have now read that it can be sub 90 km during cold Toronto Area January days (-10c). My wife has a 96km round-trip commute. Question: are we cutting this too close and should therefore wait for next gen Volkswage e-car? Secondly, can anyone out there help me estimate normal battery degradation over 5 and 10 years? Is it 2-3% per year or less?; does degradation continue at same rate or level-off?


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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:45 am
Posts: 132
Location: Bay Area, CA
mobilegreeen wrote:
We put a deposit down on a 2019 SEL e-golf. Love the car. We were aware on the decrease in range with low ambient conditions. But I have now read that it can be sub 90 km during cold Toronto Area January days (-10c). My wife has a 96km round-trip commute. Question: are we cutting this too close and should therefore wait for next gen Volkswage e-car? Secondly, can anyone out there help me estimate normal battery degradation over 5 and 10 years? Is it 2-3% per year or less?; does degradation continue at same rate or level-off?


So far it seems like people have seen about that 2-3% drop per year, but it doesn’t seem linear. The battery may degrade over a couple of years but then seems to stabilise. Your mileage may literally vary though.

How fast are the roads on your wife’s commute? 95km is probably still ok unless you’ll be travelling over 65mph. Preheating while plugged in before departure is key. SEL with heat pump is a good choice

Is there charging at work?

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2016 SEL in Deep Black Pearl ⚡️(The Handsome Boy)
2019 SEL in Indium Gray ⚡️ (The Very Handsome Boy)


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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:30 pm
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I think the other temperature extreme (think Las vegas, AZ, etc.) would be more of a long term degradation concern.

You will have range issues in the cold for sure so hopefully some folks from cold climates can comment on winter range. That said, your commute is only 60 miles which is half the range of the car so you are probably okay. Try to keep highway speeds down (not over 65, 55 is even better if safe). Heat pump in SEL model may help some, but I heard it doesn't matter as much below freezing so maybe that is not a factor in your climate.

Long term? Nobody knows about ten years yet because these cars are only in their 5th model year (2015-2019). I can say that at 47,500 miles (~76,450 kms) we still see 90-100 miles on our 2015. There was a post in the Facebook eGolf group the other day from someone with over 100k miles (first I have heard of) and they still have good range. There appears to be some initial degradation but with reasonable care eGolf batteries seem to be lasting well so far.

There is a lot of great advice in this forum about battery preservation, especially from f1geek and others. I sort of heed the advice, but not 100% and our battery is holding up well.

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2015 e-Golf SEL my wife's daily, shared on weekends
2000 BMW 540iT my daily and our range extender
1986 Audi 4000 quattro "the cockroach" my alternate daily
1983 Audi Ur Quattro "the garage queen" looks pretty and appreciates daily


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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:25 am 
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I am in southern NH. My range has dropped to about 90 miles (145km) per charge in the colder parts of winter (0F, -18C). All secondary roads, I have the resistive (non heat-pump) heater and use snow tires (range killer for sure). It is garaged at both ends of my daily commute.

For comparison, my most recent charge is on track to hit about 180 miles. Spring is here!!!

Once summer arrives, range will be more in line with the rated value (125 miles).


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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:52 am 
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I completely agree that cold weather reduces range, but that is not caused by battery degradation. If anything, cold weather prolongs battery life (as high temperatures cause permanent damage in combination with very high state of charge), but unfortunately, it reduces the effective usable capacity (I think this probably due to the Arrhenius law and the reduced rate of chemical reactions at low temperatures). As you found, once the pack warms up, you get the range back.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
Posts: 2282
Sparklebeard wrote:
mobilegreeen wrote:
We put a deposit down on a 2019 SEL e-golf. Love the car. We were aware on the decrease in range with low ambient conditions. But I have now read that it can be sub 90 km during cold Toronto Area January days (-10c). My wife has a 96km round-trip commute. Question: are we cutting this too close and should therefore wait for next gen Volkswage e-car? Secondly, can anyone out there help me estimate normal battery degradation over 5 and 10 years? Is it 2-3% per year or less?; does degradation continue at same rate or level-off?


So far it seems like people have seen about that 2-3% drop per year, but it doesn’t seem linear. The battery may degrade over a couple of years but then seems to stabilise. Your mileage may literally vary though.

How fast are the roads on your wife’s commute? 95km is probably still ok unless you’ll be travelling over 65mph. Preheating while plugged in before departure is key. SEL with heat pump is a good choice

Is there charging at work?

This is what I personally am observing.... New I saw 129 M on my 2015 Guess O Meter. In Oct I will have had the car 4 years... degradation the past two years has slowed waaaay down. At about 22.5k miles now. Battery shows 112 to 119 miles now on GOM on same route, more miles of range now that summer is here and air is less dense, and whole drive train warms up a lot quicker in summer heat, just doesn't get as cold at night.

I run 45 PSi all the time in the tires, cold. These tires do not seem to hold their air pressure very well, for whatever reason. Have to stay on top of the tire air pressure frequently.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:48 pm 
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JoulesThief wrote:
I run 45 PSi all the time in the tires, cold. These tires do not seem to hold their air pressure very well, for whatever reason. Have to stay on top of the tire air pressure frequently.


Maybe because VW recommends 41 psi cold, and the max tire pressure per Bridgestone for the Ecopia EP422 Plus is 44 psi? You mean you didn't read the manual?! (Couldn't resist.)

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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:54 pm 
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2016golfse wrote:
JoulesThief wrote:
I run 45 PSi all the time in the tires, cold. These tires do not seem to hold their air pressure very well, for whatever reason. Have to stay on top of the tire air pressure frequently.


Maybe because VW recommends 41 cold, and the max tire pressure per Bridgestone for the Ecopia EP422 Plus is 44 psi? You mean you didn't read the manual?! (Couldn't resist.)


yeah, thought I read the side of the tire as being 45 psi... I could be wrong, though. If I have a blow out at 45 mph on a Blvd... I'll let you know. Giving away all my secrets on how I get 6.3 m/ kWh showing in my infotainment center. Tread wear looks even, might be getting close to rotating the tires in another 3 or 4k miles, for the first time.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:08 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Boston area, MA
I'm in the Boston area and have a 2018 SEL with the heat pump. On average in subfreezing temps, my car's range stayed around 100-105 miles as long as the temps stayed above 10 degrees F. The few times it was below 10, range dropped further to around 90 miles. This is with preheating the car, and my commute is 50 miles round trip on mostly secondary roads, only a few miles above 60 mph. So I would say a 90km (60 miles) round trip commute should be fine in most winter conditions as long as you preheat and don't drive crazy fast. I haven't seen any degradation issues at all, by the way. Car has about 8000 miles on it.

(Of course, now that we're in the summer, my GOM read 170 miles the other day when I charged the battery to 100%.)

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2018 VW e-Golf SEL Premium (w/ DAP) - Silver White w/ black interior


Last edited by manybees on Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery degradation over time in cool climate
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:05 am 
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Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 8:38 am
Posts: 48
Location: Toronto, Canada
mobilegreeen wrote:
We put a deposit down on a 2019 SEL e-golf. Love the car. We were aware on the decrease in range with low ambient conditions. But I have now read that it can be sub 90 km during cold Toronto Area January days (-10c). My wife has a 96km round-trip commute. Question: are we cutting this too close and should therefore wait for next gen Volkswage e-car? Secondly, can anyone out there help me estimate normal battery degradation over 5 and 10 years? Is it 2-3% per year or less?; does degradation continue at same rate or level-off?


I have a 2018 eGolf and commute 50km each way to work (Burlington to LBP airport), 100km round trip. In the summer when it's around 15c, I charge to 70% and get home with about 30%, so lots of battery. In the winter, with winter tires and cold wx, say about -15c, I will charge to either 90% or 100% and get home with about 20%. This is 95% highway driving, so hardest on the battery, so if your wife's commute is more city streets, then that will help considerably with range. I also have the comfort of having access to DC fast chargers near where I park at work, but I have only used them a couple of times when I forgot to charge the car prior to going to work (I leave at different times to go to work so I can't have a fixed charge schedule, and I always leave the car about 50% charged so I can always at least get to work).


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