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 Post subject: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and levels
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:40 pm 
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New member here.

I'm going to consolidate/clarify the charging times for the e-Golf since I'm seeing a lot of posts and misinformation. Please correct me if I'm wrong and I'll update this post.

2017 e-Golf has a 35.8 kWh battery.
2015/2016 e-Golf has a 24.2 kWh battery.


Charging time is based on year and model:
2017 SE
Includes 7.2 kW charger(max charging rate is 6.6 kW) and SAE J1772 connector
AC Level 1 - (SAE J1772 connector to Standard NEMA 5-15 wall plug ) 110V/120V at Max 12 Amps - 110V and 120V reference the same thing. Approximate 100% Charge time ~ 29 hours
AC Level 2 - (SAE J1772 connector to Various home 220V/240V Connectors such as NEMA 6-20. 220V and 240V reference the same thing. If connecting to a public charger such as chargepoint or Blink, it will be either 220V/240V or 208V which are different. At 240V and 30 Amps or higher with no other vehicle sharing the station, Approximate 100% Charge time as low as 5.5 hours
DC Fast Charger - N/A

2017 SEL
Includes 7.2 kW charger(max charging rate is 6.6 kW), SAE J1772 connector, and DC SAE Combo Fast Charger connector)
AC Level 1 - (SAE J1772 connector to Standard NEMA 5-15 wall plug ) 110V/120V at Max 12 Amps - 110V and 120V reference the same thing. Approximate 100% Charge time ~ 29 hours
AC Level 2 - (SAE J1772 connector to Various home 220V/240V Connectors such as NEMA 6-20. 220V and 240V reference the same thing. If connecting to a public charger such as chargepoint or Blink, it will be either 220V/240V or 208V which are different. At 240V and 30 Amps or higher with no other vehicle sharing the station, Approximate 100% Charge time as low as 5.5 hours
DC Fast Charger (mistakenly known as Level 3) - (SAE Combo connector to public fast charging station such as Blink DC Fast Charger or chargepoint Express) - Amps and Volts vary - Approximate 100% Charge time ~ between 40 minutes and 1.5 hour.

2016(SE without $1675 Fast Charging option)
Includes 3.6 kW charger(max charging rate is 3.2 kW) and SAE J1772 connector
AC Level 1 - Same as above. Approximate 100% Charge time ~ 20 hours
AC Level 2 - 100% Charge time takes longer due to the 3.6kW charger instead of 7.2kW. Approximate 100% Charge time ~ 7.6 hours
DC Fast Charger - N/A

2015(SEL or Limited Edition) or 2016(SEL or SE with $1675 Fast Charging Package)
Includes 7.2 kW charger(max charging rate is 6.6 kW), SAE J1772 connector, and DC SAE Combo Fast Charger connector)
AC Level 1 - (SAE J1772 connector to Standard NEMA 5-15 wall plug ) 110V/120V at Max 12 Amps - 110V and 120V reference the same thing. Approximate 100% Charge time ~ 20 hours
AC Level 2 - (SAE J1772 connector to Various home 220V/240V Connectors such as NEMA 6-20. 220V and 240V reference the same thing. If connecting to a public charger such as chargepoint or Blink, it will be either 220V/240V or 208V which are different. At 240V and 30 Amps or higher with no other vehicle sharing the station, Approximate 100% Charge time as low as 4 hours
DC Fast Charger (mistakenly known as Level 3) - (SAE Combo connector to public fast charging station such as Blink DC Fast Charger or chargepoint Express) - Amps and Volts vary - Approximate 100% Charge time ~ between 25 minutes and 1 hour.




Hope this helps!


Last edited by SDegolf on Thu May 04, 2017 11:04 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:36 pm 
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Most public level 2 stations are wired with commercial 208V. That's if there is no voltage sag in the line run to the EVSE, sometimes you are lucky to see 200V at the EVSE.

A 3.6kw Charger on board is at 15 amps and 240V. Drop the voltage to 208 to 200V at the same amps, 15, and you are looking at 3 to 3.1 kw, before charger and battery losses.

Same factor with a 7.2 kw charger on board. You need 30 amps at 240V Residential Voltage, not commercial 208V. When running a 7.2 kw charger pack on 240V residential, the last 20 minutes of charging to completion will really drop the amperage charge take rate by the battery. The amount of miles gained in the last 20 minutes top charging is slow going, very little miles added to range for amount of additional time on the charger. Might wish to remember that on longer trips while waiting to recharge, and get back on the road instead, if you don't need the range to the next L2 charge station.

I can't comment how much if any a 3.6 kw charger on board slows down for the last 8 to 10% charge being added. I can say I've noted it with the 7.2 kw charger on my 2015 SEL. YMMV. Given a choice, on the road, if the price per kwh is competitive, I will always take a 240V NEMA 14-50 outlet with my own EVSE 40 amp box over a public 200-208V EVSE station. It makes a 17 to 20% difference in savings of time if I am on the road and need to get somewhere without waiting extra time before moving on down the road with a 95 to 96% SOC. When my Car-Net app says I have 15 minutes left to complete, I unplug and get going again. Too little KW added in the last 20 to 15 minutes.

If you are using a DC fast charger, you will see a charge to about 80% in 20 minutes, 90% in 30 minutes, if a 55kwh model, and a charge of 80% in about 40 minutes if a 24kwh version, and close to 90% in 50 minutes to an hour, like a ChargePoint 100, or Dc charging units you might see at a BMW dealership or a few VW dealerships here in California, or along the electric highway along US101 and I-5 north to the Oregon Border.

http://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/cpe100/


Image

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Last edited by JoulesThief on Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:48 pm 
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Posts: 96
Location: Los Altos, CA
A couple of questions and comments for JoulesThief or others.

- I've see you post that the diff between the 3.6kW and 7.2kW chargers are really just 15A and 30A. Do you know if there is a watt limit as well, (e.g maybe at 250V I still only get 7.2kW). I ask because with electric R/C LiPo chargers, there is sometimes separate watt, volt, and current limits and the watt limit isn't just max A * max V.

- Regarding that last bit of charging adding fewer miles per minute of charge, it would be interesting to see when the switch happens on 120V vs 240V. The behavior you describe fits with what I understand to be most common LiPo charging regimes will do constant current (raising charging voltage to get a preset current) for the bulk of the charge, then switch to constant voltage where the voltage is held constant right at the max pack voltage and current gradually decreases as the actual pack voltage gets closer to the charger voltage. At what point the charger switches from CC to CV phase is something the engineers have set for us, maybe near 80-90% capacity?

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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
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kirby wrote:
A couple of questions and comments for JoulesThief or others.

- I've see you post that the diff between the 3.6kW and 7.2kW chargers are really just 15A and 30A. Do you know if there is a watt limit as well, (e.g maybe at 250V I still only get 7.2kW). I ask because with electric R/C LiPo chargers, there is sometimes separate watt, volt, and current limits and the watt limit isn't just max A * max V.

- Regarding that last bit of charging adding fewer miles per minute of charge, it would be interesting to see when the switch happens on 120V vs 240V. The behavior you describe fits with what I understand to be most common LiPo charging regimes will do constant current (raising charging voltage to get a preset current) for the bulk of the charge, then switch to constant voltage where the voltage is held constant right at the max pack voltage and current gradually decreases as the actual pack voltage gets closer to the charger voltage. At what point the charger switches from CC to CV phase is something the engineers have set for us, maybe near 80-90% capacity?


I have observed .01 kw being added per second on a 50 kwh DC fast charger. It slows down to every 2 seconds at some arbitrary % State of Charge, which I've noticed before, but never logged the % of charge it starts doing it at. By the time it gets down to adding .01 kw every 3 to 4 seconds, it's probably close to time to just topping the battery off on a regular plug with 208- 240 at 30 amp EVSE unit, and free the Quick charger up for the next high speed charge user. 20 to 22 minutes is usually where you get the bulk of the charge, if you are paying for time plus kwh on a quick charger, with an e-Golfs small 24 kw traction battery.

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Last edited by JoulesThief on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:13 pm
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Location: Los Altos, CA
The car's on-board charger usually operates at a fixed current, either 15A or 30A as long as the EVSE has a capacity greater or equal to that. It will continue at constant current up to more than 90%. The figure below is from a BTC DC Fast charger in Sunnyvale, CA.

Image

You can see that in the beginning, the car is taking the maximum current the station can provide - nominally 100 amps. Then it seems to slow down for a constant voltage of about 355V for about 5 minutes, then slowly comes up to 360V and the current ramps down so that the pack does not exceed that voltage.

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Last edited by miimura on Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:50 am 
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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:49 pm 
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I had 5 miles of range left when I did this recharge, and averaged 6.3 miles per kwh on that full recharge. So there may have been .83 kw left in the battery. I was told by a VW guru on e-Golfs that getting the battery down to a 5 mile remaining range will "reset" or "synch" the battery and Guess O Meter for remaining capacity, IF, and only if you fully recharge the battery after running it down to 5 miles left. I can tell you the last 12 miles were of very limited functionality, throttle response in eco + mode is just plain old self preservation... you do NOT want to be on the freeway in this condition, even Blvd driving to 35 or 45 mph is several hampered and curtailed, in a helpless "limp" mode.

This is what the charging time looked like on 236 to 238V the whole time at 30 amps. I added 122 miles of range on this recharge, total when full was 127 miles of range showing. YMMV... I do drive slow, and smooth... 55-58 mph is my top speed on freeway trips, in the far right lane.

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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:34 pm 
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Can someone explain the DC Fast Charging Package? Does this get you you 7.3 kW AC and DC if you find an SE with the package included?


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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:27 pm 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
judah8750 wrote:
Can someone explain the DC Fast Charging Package? Does this get you you 7.3 kW AC and DC if you find an SE with the package included?
Yes, that is correct. You get double the speed AC charging and you get the ability to use DC Fast Charge. All for the low, low price of $1,675.

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2015 e-Golf LE (returned) | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 2012 RAV4 EV Shoreline w/JdeMO | Leviton EVB40 & Jesla Home Charging | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV + 2x Powerwall 2 AC


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 Post subject: Re: [Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and lev
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:01 am 
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miimura wrote:
judah8750 wrote:
Can someone explain the DC Fast Charging Package? Does this get you you 7.3 kW AC and DC if you find an SE with the package included?
Yes, that is correct. You get double the speed AC charging and you get the ability to use DC Fast Charge. All for the low, low price of $1,675.


Thank you! I thought so but the salesman at the dealer kept trying to tell me it was DC only. Calling VW Customer Care was useless as well. Interestingly every SE at the local dealer has the DC Fast Charging Package.


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