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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Posts: 33
JoulesThief wrote:
Any idea what that weight is doing to the brushes, and windings of your electric motor? Or to the battery pack.



Well, I would like to say that you have a point but unfortunately you got the wrong components to ask about. The brushes and windings (hoping that you are aware what they are and how they work) are not affected by putting a bit more strain (while within the nominal range) on the electric motor. The biggest enemy of the brushes is the copper dust and other contaminants from adjoining parts like oil/grease from bearings or water that somehow found its way into the motor. Windings really don't like heat from overloading a motor as the insulation can fail and destroy the motor. Both of these can occur when a motor is overloaded but most of the time are a result of manufacturing defects or imporper cleaning of the motor.

I'm not sure if I gave the impression that I'm towing on a daily basis and trailer-racing with my friends but this is for the rare odd-job that I'd rather put a small load behind in a trailer than in the trunk due to the size or cleanliness (read ... lack of). This was a bit of a maximum that I would try since it was close to the hitch limit. The tongue weight was quite small as I was able to lift the trailer tongue while loaded so I was also not worried about the weight on the rear axle. While driving normally I never exceeded or felt like I need to go over 50% of power while accelerating. I usually do a lot more than that on the steep hills around town where sometimes I am actually racing with gas guzzlers that barely keep up. No trailers involved!

It just happens that recently I found out the reasons behind EV manufacturers not allowing towing. (Please correct me if I'm wrong or anyone has better sources). It appears mainly connected to the weight of the battery pack. Being quite heavy, the manufacturers can't homologate the vehicle as the pull weight is drastically reduced. This would put extra strain on ... not windings or brushes, but on brakes mainly. Also the other problem is again under braking, the regen would tend to send too much energy into the batteries due to the extra kinetic energy thus running a chance of overwhelming the system. Range would also be drastically affected which would look bad on the sticker. (http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advi ... ectric-car)

These do sound like good legitimate reasons. Brushes and windings...while driving like a sane person, not so much. Thanks for bringing it up though.

JoulesThief wrote:
You should have bought a manual 6 speed TDI Golf instead. Seriously.

I hope you own this e-Golf and don't lease it.


Rest easy, I do own it and I would definitely be more cautious towing with a 6 speed gearbox from a wear point of view than a one-gear motor.


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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:19 am 
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JoulesThief wrote:
Any idea what that weight is doing to the brushes, and windings of your electric motor? Or to the battery pack.


I thought that the Synchronous AC Permanent Magnet motor was brushless. Anybody know for sure?


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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:13 pm
Posts: 1249
Location: Los Altos, CA
Amadeus wrote:
JoulesThief wrote:
Any idea what that weight is doing to the brushes, and windings of your electric motor? Or to the battery pack.


I thought that the Synchronous AC Permanent Magnet motor was brushless. Anybody know for sure?

You are correct. There are no brushes on modern EV traction motors.

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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:00 am 
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 9:49 am
Posts: 33
It was a bit off to me too hearing this type of question for the first time related to an EV. I didn't have time to research if it's brushless or not, so I just applied my general knowledge on electric motors.
It's good to know that there's one less thing to worry about


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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:30 pm
Posts: 141
I too thought the e-Golf was an AC induction motor so I don't think you have much worry there.

I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow. Old school (like the 1960s or maybe even 1970s) sticks were fine to tow with. I once owned a then new 1992 Ford F150 w/300ci straight six (massive torque) but since it had a 5 speed (Mazda sourced) stick towing was restricted to only 1500 pounds (with a full size pickup?!)

I used to tow a Moore 24 sailboat (around 3000 pounds with trailer) with a 1978 Toyota pickup around town and it did okay but the clutch suffered and started to slip.

If you're not using massive energy and doing short flat distances, probably okay...ish. Personally, I probably wouldn't risk it. That load looked pretty heavy. We sold our 2001 F150 to buy the e-Golf but that was after we sold our Hobie 18 it was a tow vehicle for and my wife shut down her gardening biz.

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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Location: SoCal
msvphoto wrote:
I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow.


Europeans don't seem to have that concern:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
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RonDawg wrote:
msvphoto wrote:
I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow.


Europeans don't seem to have that concern:

Image


Europeans are towing on the flats, down to France and Spain, from Benelux and DE, not in the Alps or mountains, with their caravans. Having towed a 21 foot Palomino Gazelle behind a 2013 Touareg TDI, there's no way in hell in the western USA that I'd tow a caravan with any model Golf. Just not enough brakes to be safe, not with the way Americans drive in the foothills and mountains. Just driving to Kernville CA from N Los Angeles, a travel trailer is a handful. Anyone that says it tows like nothing is back there at all is ignorant or very inexperienced in towing. Stand on the throttle hard or step on the brakes hard, or get in a crosswind of 20 mph or more, or get passed by someone with a flat fronted Class A motor home that pushes that trailer at the hitch like a pivot point from the air wave front, and you'll know exactly what I mean by the tail wagging the dog. Even with a weight distribution hitch and anti sway features, it's a white knucker. BTW the Touareg is built on a Truck chassis /unibody, designed for up to 7700 # tow capacity and 770# tongue weight on a class III 2" box hitch. Been to Breckenridge, CO for Breck Epic mtn bike races, Yellowstone 8 times, up to Missoula, over to Clarkston, Lewiston, Portland and down the coast of OR with that Palomino. It's a big handful, at 60 mph towing. Really don't care what the Europeans do, it's what Americans do, on American roads. When in Rome, do like the Romans do.

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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Location: SoCal
JoulesThief wrote:
RonDawg wrote:
msvphoto wrote:
I too would be concerned with using a stick to tow.


Europeans don't seem to have that concern:

Image


Europeans are towing on the flats, down to France and Spain, from Benelux and DE, not in the Alps or mountains, with their caravans.


Trust me, having traveled throughout Europe including the Alps, they tow anywhere they legally can. They hold everybody up; Top Gear did an episode on this several years ago, using a Kia Cerato -- Forte 5 diesel as the tow vehicle. But they do it.

In reality, they're no slower than the big trucks on those same roads.

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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
Posts: 2255
RonDawg wrote:
JoulesThief wrote:
RonDawg wrote:
Europeans are towing on the flats, down to France and Spain, from Benelux and DE, not in the Alps or mountains, with their caravans.


Trust me, having traveled throughout Europe including the Alps, they tow anywhere they legally can. They hold everybody up; Top Gear did an episode on this several years ago, using a Kia Cerato -- Forte 5 diesel as the tow vehicle. But they do it.

In reality, they're no slower than the big trucks on those same roads.


They are all light duty diesel motors. There's no replacement for displacement, when you need to get work done, without compromising longevity or exceeding engineering limitations. German car makers integrate all their systems. Europe has many countries that have an 8 year life cycle for a vehicle. 8 years, and they want the vehicle off the public roads. Scrapped. Not so in the USA.

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 Post subject: Re: Trailer wiring
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:20 am 
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Location: SoCal
JoulesThief wrote:
Europe has many countries that have an 8 year life cycle for a vehicle. 8 years, and they want the vehicle off the public roads. Scrapped. Not so in the USA.


I've never heard of such a thing. And I've been to Europe a few times and know a few residents and have seen cars older than 8 years on the roads. One European guy I know has a 40+ year old Land Rover and a near 60 year old DAF (it was his grandmother's car). Certain European countries (Sweden especially) love classic American cars, and in Germany any classic car is colloquially referred to as an "oldtimer" even though that's an English word.

As long as the car passes MOT/TUV/etc. it can be registered. The only constraints I have seen are recent attempts in a few cities like Paris to ban ICEVs older than a certain age in the city center, or Germany's "umweltzone" system where your car is issued a sticker with a color denoting how bad it pollutes, and authorities can ban certain colors from the city center. https://www.german-way.com/travel-and-t ... een-zones/

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