Ontario, Canada. Volks dealerships are inconsistent

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Zeuser

***
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
67
I've contacted 15 dealerships in the GTHA (Toronto - Hamilton Area). Actually, I went so far as Pickering to the east and Orangeville to the North.

The rules were simple: 2018 eGolf comfortline. Base model. No charge for special paint. No tech package. No driver assist package. No letherette. No extra options, protections etc. 36 months lease at 20,000km/year (60,000km total)

Here are some results:
- One dealership refused to give me an email quote. Insisted I come in person to get a quote. This is the only dealership that did this! Sounds like high pressure sales tactics to me. Needless to say that she's out of the running from my business
- One dealership included Fuel ($65) in the quote. LOL! The only dealership that did that.
- Several dealerships tried to include wheel locks. Between $49 to $75. Why are the prices so different for something like wheel locks?
- A few dealerships tried to include winter mats for $100. I didn't ask for this!
- One dealership, in an effort to get me a lower quote, didn't include Freight & PDI ($1645). This is pretty much mandatory. Seems like he was trying to pull a bait and switch.
- 2 dealerships tried to pass "Vehicle return silver" for $259. Whatever the heck that is. At least they used the same price
- 2 dealership tried to include "Volkswagen anti-theft". One for $158 the other at $149
- One dealership tried to include "Tireguard protection" for $259.
- Once dealership, same that tried to include "Tireguard", tried to include VWOL for $43. WTF is VWOL?
- Admin fees, sometimes quoted as "documentation fees" can range from $349 to as high as $595. And you'll get the "I can't change that" excuse when you tell them they're too high. Most dealerships asked $395.
- A few dealerships actually didn't pay attention to the 60,000km (total) and quoted me for 75,000km and 90,000km. Obviously this means the quote will be higher. It's a tricky way to squeeze in a higher quote without having any extra dollar figures show up in the details. Pay close attention to this.

So the Takeaway is:

- Review the quotes VERY carefully.
- Salespeople can be very sneaky. Be aware and look for their sneaky tricks to get a few bucks
- Do your own research. Do like I did:
1 - Use Excel.
2- Get a lease calculation spreadsheet online as a baseline.
3- Call, or email all the dealerships in your area. And get quotes
4- Enter the quotes on your spreadsheet. It's easier by email as most will attach a PDF of the quote
5- Analyze each dealer's quote
6- Follow-up with the sales person and show them where their mistake is, like adding Fuel (what a clown!), and other fees which seem too high.
7- Repeat 4-6 a few times to narrow it down
8- You can then find the best quote and the most most honest salesperson. Dishonest example: The guy who quoted without the Freight & PDI in an attempt to get the best quote. Yeah... without that extra $1645, the due at delivery is pretty low
- In the end, what you really want to focus on is this: ($monthly payment X Months) + Due at delivery. Just makes sure all those numbers are as accurate as possible.
- DON'T BE EMOTIONAL! Don't bend to pressure tactics. Take a scientific, mathematical and systematic approach to each dealer you contact.

To avoid any liability, I can't list the quotes, dealership names and salespeople I dealt with. But I will show you these which should ALWAYS be on your quote:

- Freight & PDI : $1645
- OMVIC : $10
- A/C TAX: $100
- Tire stewardship : $17.75
- PPSA due on delivery : $43.5

if you don't see those exact numbers and items on your quote. That's a red flag. Find out why.

Things that vary:
- Residual value. i've seen as low as 38% and as high as 43%. Look for about $15,477.85
- APR. Usually around 0.99% at the time of this writing.
- Administration fee: I've seen as low as $349 and as high as $595. The more common number is $395.

I hope this helps. And again, don't ask me for specifics with Dealership names, salespeople and their actual quotes. Do your own research and you'll find similar results I'm sure.
 
Thanks for performing all of this research.

Could you please explain what you would be liable for by printing information you gathered from dealers? I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how you would be violating any laws.

Thanks!
 
f1geek said:
Thanks for performing all of this research.

Could you please explain what you would be liable for by printing information you gathered from dealers? I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how you would be violating any laws.

Thanks!

I'm not a lawyer either but I've heard some people get sued for posting too many specific details. I just want to avoid any possible lawsuits, even if they'd be tossed out anyway. Not including any names, phone numbers etc. is a sure way to not get any suits, takedown requests etc.

Like I said: if you follow my methods, you'll probably come to the same conclusions regarding the sneaky ones and honest ones. And yes.. some of them were totally honest and upfront about everything.
 
the one that kills me is the air tax , brought in to ' fight ' fuel waste mileage guzzling cars .. e cars use no fuel ..
 
The entire dealership model is consumer-unfriendly and has got to go, for both sales and service. Let the people who make the cars deal directly with the people who buy them. It's 2017. Tesla does this and it works great.
 
Zeuser said:
- Tire stewardship : $17.75
This should be $3.30 per tire = $13.20, Small difference, but it shows you are been taken, check the other numbers.
http://rethinktires.ca/program-participants/stewards/tsf-fee-chart/#sthash.0HlPPXKa.dpbs
 
anyone have their eGolf yet ? still waiting for mine to appear from Halifax ....
 
Kosta said:
anyone have their eGolf yet ? still waiting for mine to appear from Halifax ....

My guess is if you are getting the 35.8Kwh battery in a 2017 or a 2018, they won't be coming in until late July to mid August, and that's if you are lucky. They may start showing up in October, too. When it gets cold, you'll really be disappointed with the limited range. Cold temps really cut in to how far you can go on a charge. Lots of added friction, dense cold air, seat heaters, water and snow rolling resistance, etc. Plan on dressing for cold weather, inside your car, the heater unit sucks a lot of battery charge down fast, the heated seats are a better idea for staying warm.
 
Kosta said:
anyone have their eGolf yet ? still waiting for mine to appear from Halifax ....

Mine is supposed to finish production next week. After that it's 1.5-2 months to delivery in Toronto, according to dealer timeline.

Is yours already in Halifax?
 
JoulesThief said:
Kosta said:
anyone have their eGolf yet ? still waiting for mine to appear from Halifax ....
My guess is if you are getting the 35.8Kwh battery in a 2017 or a 2018, they won't be coming in until late July to mid August, and that's if you are lucky. They may start showing up in October, too. When it gets cold, you'll really be disappointed with the limited range. Cold temps really cut in to how far you can go on a charge. Lots of added friction, dense cold air, seat heaters, water and snow rolling resistance, etc. Plan on dressing for cold weather, inside your car, the heater unit sucks a lot of battery charge down fast, the heated seats are a better idea for staying warm.
People have said that an initial run of 200 e-Golf was produced in standard colors for VW Canada before they opened the pre-order system with the possibility of custom colors. That initial batch is reportedly on the ground in Canada already. This is the car with 35.8kWh battery.

Example of custom color available to order for $2,995 CAD in Canada. This is a demo car ordered by VW Canada corporate. Note the Ontario manufacturer plate. Take a look at the VW.ca site for the crazy custom colors available.

18485271_10103410963903371_6717769864786454641_n.jpg

18447581_10103410965215741_5009344038049271472_n.jpg


As I mentioned before, there are cars already on the ground in the US with the 35.8kWh battery as well. VW America is holding them until they sell enough of the old stock 2016's.
 
miimura said:
As I mentioned before, there are cars already on the ground in the US with the 35.8kWh battery as well. VW America is holding them until they sell enough of the old stock 2016's.


Therein lies the catch 22. Have all the 2015's even completely sold yet? What's your estimate of existing 2016 remaining stock in CA dealership hands?
 
JoulesThief said:
miimura said:
As I mentioned before, there are cars already on the ground in the US with the 35.8kWh battery as well. VW America is holding them until they sell enough of the old stock 2016's.
Therein lies the catch 22. Have all the 2015's even completely sold yet? What's your estimate of existing 2016 remaining stock in CA dealership hands?
The key word is "enough". I can still see 4 new 2015's on the east coast, so they clearly won't wait for all to be sold. On the west coast, Stevens Creek (San Jose) still shows 50 on hand, but nobody else has more than a dozen. 174 total nationwide today. That is down more than 50 units in 2.5 weeks. Another 2.5 weeks will take us past the 4th of July sales. We should have a better idea then if this is really the end of the 2016 inventory.
 
miimura said:
JoulesThief said:
miimura said:
As I mentioned before, there are cars already on the ground in the US with the 35.8kWh battery as well. VW America is holding them until they sell enough of the old stock 2016's.
Therein lies the catch 22. Have all the 2015's even completely sold yet? What's your estimate of existing 2016 remaining stock in CA dealership hands?
The key word is "enough". I can still see 4 new 2015's on the east coast, so they clearly won't wait for all to be sold. On the west coast, Stevens Creek (San Jose) still shows 50 on hand, but nobody else has more than a dozen. 174 total nationwide today. That is down more than 50 units in 2.5 weeks. Another 2.5 weeks will take us past the 4th of July sales. We should have a better idea then if this is really the end of the 2016 inventory.


VW still has new 2015 VW TDI's for sale, and a bunch of lightly used 2015s. They will will 2012 through 2014 TDI passats for sale shortly, used, also. They are going to have 2017 e-Golfs for sale when 2018's should be coming out, here in the USA. Keep in mind, those batteries and their chemistry age in storage, even doing nothing. VW has a tough sales job ahead of them, they really haven't done much to instill confidence in consumers. While I enjoy the way they drive, dealing with any kind of warranty work with VW dealerships is something I dread. The dealerships do a very poor job of taking care of the customer and servicing what they sell honestly. I do enjoy my 2015 e-Golf SEL. I will probably enjoy a 2020 with close to 50kwh capacity in a Gen 8 even more.
 
So. I placed an order for a 2017 e-Golf (base model) today. Got a pretty good deal.

But here's something irritating. After all my analysis, I ended up buying it from the #8 choice on my list. the #1 on my list pulled a bait-and-switch. When I got there, they said that they won't handle the government rebate for me. So they re-did the quote and it ended up not being competitive with the others anymore. They actually jacked up the overall price by $300. So just the action of removing the government rebate (before taxes) and telling me that I'd have to handle it myself, actually added $300 to the bill (once I subtracted the $14K). What the hell?

F that!

My #8 on my list, the one I ended up signing with, actually sent me a terrible quote by email. Yesterday I went to their dealership because they actually had a demo to drive. I was the first one to drive it too. They were still pulling off the plastic wrap when I got there. Then I got a quote from a sales rep. This time, it placed them at #3 on my list. So far so good. Today I went back and they gave me a really good deal. Best deal I got so far. So I signed up and put in a deposit.

Moral of the story: The process is all over the place. Even with all my hard work, my #1 choice tried to fuck me over when it came time to actually buy it. My #8 choice, which I wasn't even going to bother with, ended up #1. It's a very unpleasant process. Only 2nd to a root canal in my book!
 
Zeuser said:
So. I placed an order for a 2017 e-Golf (base model) today. Got a pretty good deal.

But here's something irritating. After all my analysis, I ended up buying it from the #8 choice on my list. the #1 on my list pulled a bait-and-switch. When I got there, they said that they won't handle the government rebate for me. So they re-did the quote and it ended up not being competitive with the others anymore. They actually jacked up the overall price by $300. So just the action of removing the government rebate (before taxes) and telling me that I'd have to handle it myself, actually added $300 to the bill (once I subtracted the $14K). What the hell?

F that!

My #8 on my list, the one I ended up signing with, actually sent me a terrible quote by email. Yesterday I went to their dealership because they actually had a demo to drive. I was the first one to drive it too. They were still pulling off the plastic wrap when I got there. Then I got a quote from a sales rep. This time, it placed them at #3 on my list. So far so good. Today I went back and they gave me a really good deal. Best deal I got so far. So I signed up and put in a deposit.

Moral of the story: The process is all over the place. Even with all my hard work, my #1 choice tried to fuck me over when it came time to actually buy it. My #8 choice, which I wasn't even going to bother with, ended up #1. It's a very unpleasant process. Only 2nd to a root canal in my book!

I hear ya! Has anyone considered using a broker to get an E-Golf or any other EV? I have used a broker for my last two ICE vehicle purchases and it avoids most of this crap. I also went to dealers to confirm and I find I end up paying similar to a little less through the broker. I certainly pay less than if I was upsold on anything - there just isn't any upselling.
 
Here's what I got when I put my deposit down...

Freight: $1645 (ok)
AC tax: $100 (ok)
Registration: $299 (? is this admin fees?)
Ride Green Certificate: $299 (??? didn't see this one in your list)
OMVIC/Tire: $27.75 (ok, but combined on my quote)
License Free: $32.00 (is this to transfer plates?)


Total purchase price: $46,963.75 (with tech and leatherette)

The dealership has also warned me, subject to change when I go in for the final order...

and also, unfortunately this is the only dealership within driving range for me... So I don't have much of a choice which one I go to...
 
There is no liability issues posting sales quotes. If someone told you they heard about someone being sued over doing so they were confused and didn't have all the details. If you post a sales quote along with a claim that someone is a liar or a thief, then you could be subject to a lawsuit unless you have evidence of them lying or stealing (truth is an absolute defense).
 
nerk said:
Here's what I got when I put my deposit down...

Freight: $1645 (ok)
AC tax: $100 (ok)
Registration: $299 (? is this admin fees?)
Ride Green Certificate: $299 (??? didn't see this one in your list)
OMVIC/Tire: $27.75 (ok, but combined on my quote)
License Free: $32.00 (is this to transfer plates?)


Total purchase price: $46,963.75 (with tech and leatherette)

The dealership has also warned me, subject to change when I go in for the final order...

and also, unfortunately this is the only dealership within driving range for me... So I don't have much of a choice which one I go to...

My quote was the same as yours, but I got them to remove the Ride Green fee. It's basically nitrogen in your tires and not mandatory.
 
flyboy320 said:
My quote was the same as yours, but I got them to remove the Ride Green fee. It's basically nitrogen in your tires and not mandatory.

What about registration? what's that for? I think that's a bogus up sell too... If I read OMVIC website correctly...
 
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