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 Post subject: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:31 am 
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Location: Boston area, MA
https://www.motor1.com/news/308241/vw-n ... p-forward/

Quote:
"Stackmann announced the demise of the e-Golf as the current generation of the all-electric model won’t be renewed since VW believes it would clash with the I.D. hatch."


I guess if you've been following VW at all, this doesn't come as a surprise, given the end of the Golf 7 platform and the upcoming release of the I.D. EV lineup. Seems bittersweet to me, though — I love my e-Golf, but am also hoping that the new I.D. EVs will improve on some of the e-Golf's maddening limitations.

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:37 am 
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manybees wrote:
https://www.motor1.com/news/308241/vw-next-golf-leap-forward/

Quote:
"Stackmann announced the demise of the e-Golf as the current generation of the all-electric model won’t be renewed since VW believes it would clash with the I.D. hatch."


I guess if you've been following VW at all, this doesn't come as a surprise, given the end of the Golf 7 platform and the upcoming release of the I.D. EV lineup. Seems bittersweet to me, though — I love my e-Golf, but am also hoping that the new I.D. EVs will improve on some of the e-Golf's maddening limitations.


What do you find as limitations, for you?

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:53 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Range (obviously) and charging rate. The 130 miles in the 2017+ and newer models is a nice boost, but here we are, in 2019, and as expected, 200 miles has become the norm. As for the charging rate, I believe the fast charger on the e-Golf maxes at about 30 kW? So that's about 45 minutes to get to 80%. 50 kW should be the minimum on a new car, and we'll be seeing a lot more 60, 100, 150 kW charging stations rolled out in the 2020s.

It may seem trivial, but for me, charging rate does matter. Getting to 80% in 25 minutes means is not horribly inconvenient - I can stop at a mall or grocery store and easily kill that time. But 45 minutes...that's a different story. I now feel like I'm having to plan my life around the limitations of the car, and end up wishing I had bought a hybrid. A 200+ mile range would mainly negate this though since I have a home charger and only go over 200 miles a day in a road trip scenario, where I like stopping every few hours anyway for meal and bathroom breaks.

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2016 e-Golf SE in Urano Grey leased 8/1/2016 for $1500 down + $50 x 24 months * Purchased 7/31/2018 * ChargePoint Home 32a (wired)
2018 BMW i3s REx in Mineral Gray purchased 6/12/2018 w/ Giga, Tech, Parking, CarPlay, Harmon Kardons, and of course Moonroof


Last edited by johnnylingo on Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:11 am 
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I agree range is not optimal for everyone, but then again, can you buy a 200 mile EV for ~$22,000 (including taxes), which is what I paid for my 2017 e-Golf LE. I make a handful of long trips in the car every year, so I am willing to make the tradeoff in range for dollars. Also, the DCFC rate on the e-Golf is 39 kW - again, not optimal, but the e-Golf gets great efficiency and low cost in part due to the lack of an active liquid cooling system, which is the cause of this charging limitation.

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:08 pm
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Location: Boston area, MA
JoulesThief wrote:
What do you find as limitations, for you?


- Poorly designed mobile app and in-car software for charging schedules
- Limited functionality of mobile app and in-car software (esp. wrt charging, battery health, and usage data)
- No over-the-air software upgrades
- Exorbitant pricing of Car-Net subscription beyond trial period (esp. given the minimal services it provides)
- No active cooling of battery limits back-to-back fast-charging for road trips
- Poorly designed console buttons — On/off button is too close to the Mode button
- Limited battery range for road trips
- Limited charging rate
- Poorly designed charging receptacle (can't turn off auto-locking, no manual unlock for stuck charging door or stuck nozzle, no built-in light for plugging in in the dark, no reminder on the dash when you've left the charging door open)
- Only one USB port. Needs more — preferably added to the back seat area.
- Only partial power seat adjustments
- Low quality backup cam and guidance overlays
- No heated back seats
- No heated steering wheel
- No %SOC indicator on dashboard
- No nav options to plan a trip with charger recommendations along the route (see Tesla for a good example of how to do it)
- No time travel

Not to say I don't like the car. I love it, actually, and knew what I was getting into when I bought the car. But I find these large and small things maddening in varying degrees because the car could be so much better than it already is.

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
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manybees wrote:
JoulesThief wrote:
What do you find as limitations, for you?


- Poorly designed mobile app and in-car software for charging schedules
- Limited functionality of mobile app and in-car software (esp. wrt charging, battery health, and usage data)
- No over-the-air software upgrades
- Exorbitant pricing of Car-Net subscription beyond trial period (esp. given the minimal services it provides)
- No active cooling of battery limits back-to-back fast-charging for road trips
- Poorly designed console buttons — On/off button is too close to the Mode button
- Limited battery range for road trips
- Limited charging rate
- Poorly designed charging receptacle (can't turn off auto-locking, no manual unlock for stuck charging door or stuck nozzle, no built-in light for plugging in in the dark, no reminder on the dash when you've left the charging door open)
- Only one USB port. Needs more — preferably added to the back seat area.
- Only partial power seat adjustments
- Low quality backup cam and guidance overlays
- No heated back seats
- No heated steering wheel
- No %SOC indicator on dashboard
- No nav options to plan a trip with charger recommendations along the route (see Tesla for a good example of how to do it)
- No time travel

Not to say I don't like the car. I love it, actually, and knew what I was getting into when I bought the car. But I find these large and small things maddening in varying degrees because the car could be so much better than it already is.


What did you own before your e-Golf, and did it have all of these luxury features? I am kind of a Luddite myself. I find I just drive the car and don't use many of the features. I rarely if ever need GPS. I don't need seat heaters, I dress for the weather. The only thing I really feel I do need is HID or LED headlights, to see where I am driving, at night. DCFC, while nice to have, I rarely use it on my 2015 SEL. If I could get a smoking deal on a new 2019 SEL, I'd probably jump on it. But it would have to be an absolutely fantastic deal for me to even consider giving up my 2015 SEL. The longer range would be nice, but I'm not sure how often I would use it.

It's just so much more comfortable to drive longer distances in my 2015 Passat TDI SEL, without wasting time tethered to recharge batteries. The leather seats help out, a lot, but the price per mile traveled is more than doubled, as a variable expense. The price of convenience for longer trips, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:08 pm
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Location: Boston area, MA
JoulesThief wrote:
What did you own before your e-Golf, and did it have all of these luxury features? I am kind of a Luddite myself. I find I just drive the car and don't use many of the features. I rarely if ever need GPS. I don't need seat heaters, I dress for the weather. The only thing I really feel I do need is HID or LED headlights, to see where I am driving, at night. DCFC, while nice to have, I rarely use it on my 2015 SEL. If I could get a smoking deal on a new 2019 SEL, I'd probably jump on it. But it would have to be an absolutely fantastic deal for me to even consider giving up my 2015 SEL. The longer range would be nice, but I'm not sure how often I would use it.

It's just so much more comfortable to drive longer distances in my 2015 Passat TDI SEL, without wasting time tethered to recharge batteries. The leather seats help out, a lot, but the price per mile traveled is more than doubled, as a variable expense. The price of convenience for longer trips, I guess.


Different strokes for different folks.

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:00 pm 
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JoulesThief wrote:
It's just so much more comfortable to drive longer distances in my 2015 Passat TDI SEL, without wasting time tethered to recharge batteries. The leather seats help out, a lot, but the price per mile traveled is more than doubled, as a variable expense. The price of convenience for longer trips, I guess.


I don't understand this? You prefer taking the Passat so you don't have to stop to charge, but the idea of longer electric range so you don't have to stop and charge isn't appealing?

If you like having two cars then that makes sense, but many people would prefer a single car that meets all their needs. My e-Golf would definitely be comfortable for a long drive, its just the charging that would not be!

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:58 pm 
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Sparklebeard wrote:
JoulesThief wrote:
It's just so much more comfortable to drive longer distances in my 2015 Passat TDI SEL, without wasting time tethered to recharge batteries. The leather seats help out, a lot, but the price per mile traveled is more than doubled, as a variable expense. The price of convenience for longer trips, I guess.


I don't understand this? You prefer taking the Passat so you don't have to stop to charge, but the idea of longer electric range so you don't have to stop and charge isn't appealing?

If you like having two cars then that makes sense, but many people would prefer a single car that meets all their needs. My e-Golf would definitely be comfortable for a long drive, its just the charging that would not be!


I travel quite a bit, by car. You start out near sea level and end up at 4000 feet elevation in the Owens Valley in Eastern CA, and the gain in elevation takes a bite out of the range. Everyone else is doing 70 -80 MPH on highway 395 to go skiing up at Mammoth Mtn, Then you can't really use the last of the kW in the battery, not a lot of infrastructure to recharge in the Eastern Sierras. Plenty of places that do sell diesel fuel in rural farm and ranching country. 125 miles range would be helpful around urban areas in Southern CA, not so much rural areas. The TDI is superior in that application.

An airplane capable of 2 passengers and 120 kts at 5 gallons per hour would be a good choice and time saver, weather conditions permitting.

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 Post subject: Re: VW sales chief confirms demise of the e-Golf
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:17 pm 
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JoulesThief wrote:
125 miles range would be helpful around urban areas in Southern CA, not so much rural areas. .


Oh I see, in the context of the current e-Golf then yes, there's not enough jump in range to be worth it in that regard. My understanding was that we were comparing the e-Golf against the ID line which is supposed to be offered in up to ~300mi rated configuration.

With 125kW fast charging and Tesla-esque range I think the ID3 could definitely tick all the boxes for me.

Out of curiosity I plugged a route into evtripplanner from Los Angeles to Owen's Valley, gave it a speed multiplier of 1.2, 1000lb payload to account for passengers/luggage/more and set it to Nissan Leaf Beta and got a calculation of 74kWH

If that's more or less accurate, then a 60kWh ID3 should be a breeze for a trip like that. A 36kWh eGolf would indeed be unsuitable!

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