2018: Keep, upgrade, swap, or return e-Golf

Any one else toying with the idea of a used Chevy Volt?

I don't really want to go back to a car that takes gas, but honestly even the 1st gen that only goes something like 30 miles on a charge would work for 99% of my commuting, and I could probably pick up a fully loaded one with fair milage for less than what VW wants for my e-Golf.

I was hoping things would be a bit more sorted out EV wise by the end of 2018 (and maybe it will) and my current lease would be a good bridge to my more long term car purchase.

shawner123 said:

Any one else toying with the idea of a used Chevy Volt?

I don't really want to go back to a car that takes gas, but honestly even the 1st gen that only goes something like 30 miles on a charge would work for 99% of my commuting, and I could probably pick up a fully loaded one with fair milage for less than what VW wants for my e-Golf.

I was hoping things would be a bit more sorted out EV wise by the end of 2018 (and maybe it will) and my current lease would be a good bridge to my more long term car purchase.

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If you just need EV, a used Fiat 500e 2015 goes between $6k-8k

forbin404 said:

shawner123 said:

Any one else toying with the idea of a used Chevy Volt?

I don't really want to go back to a car that takes gas, but honestly even the 1st gen that only goes something like 30 miles on a charge would work for 99% of my commuting, and I could probably pick up a fully loaded one with fair milage for less than what VW wants for my e-Golf.

I was hoping things would be a bit more sorted out EV wise by the end of 2018 (and maybe it will) and my current lease would be a good bridge to my more long term car purchase.

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If you just need EV, a used Fiat 500e 2015 goes between $6k-8k

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I've thought about that but it is just a bit too small for me, the price is surely right though which makes it hard to ignore.

Lease on 2015 finishing next month - like the car but could use the extra range. Lease rates for 2017’s coming in a lot more expensive than previous it seems - like $50 month more than our 2016 audi etron I think - waiting it out and hoping for some end of year incentives.

Interesting comments all around. Thank you.

Just wondering what you think about the future of the eGolf. The 2017 model was just recently launched, with apparently limited supply, pretty much a year late. The 2017 does not come close range-wise to the Bolt, Tesla 3, and new large capacity Leaf. Dealer experiences seem to remain, well, mixed. Carnet is an embarassment. There are more eGolf in California than Germany but VW does not seem to engage with its early adopter community - quite different from other manufactures. And so on.

The practical application to the above - will a 2015 or 2016 eGolf be little more than an unsellable brick come 2018/19/20? Do you think VW cares or are we looking at a regulatory compliance exercise? Don't get me wrong. The eGolf could be a successful EV, especially with a potential 48 kwh battery. Any insights?

egolfnorcal said:

Interesting comments all around. Thank you.

Just wondering what you think about the future of the eGolf. The 2017 model was just recently launched, with apparently limited supply, pretty much a year late. The 2017 does not come close range-wise to the Bolt, Tesla 3, and new large capacity Leaf. Dealer experiences seem to remain, well, mixed. Carnet is an embarassment. There are more eGolf in California than Germany but VW does not seem to engage with its early adopter community - quite different from other manufactures. And so on.

The practical application to the above - will a 2015 or 2016 eGolf be little more than an unsellable brick come 2018/19/20? Do you think VW cares or are we looking at a regulatory compliance exercise? Don't get me wrong. The eGolf could be a successful EV, especially with a potential 48 kwh battery. Any insights?

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VW has recently stated that after the ID series of cars based on the MEB platform are introduced, the e-Golf will be discontinued. The Golf will only be ICE and PHEV. There were rumors that they had 40+kWh cars in testing and another capacity bump may be released, but I doubt it. There is still a market for short range cars. Used Leaf cars still sell, given the right price. A Leaf that has degraded to 50 miles range is still a perfectly good car for a teenager and you're unlikely to find an ICE car in similar condition for the same price. I expect the 15/16 e-Golf to be the same. They will sell for the right price.

I was a little surprised to find that a bunch of these California compliance cars have become "swimmers". Cars like the Fiat 500e and Toyota RAV4 EV that were only sold in California have been exported to Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Norway, Jordan, and many other places. The fact that they have been depreciated by virtue of the federal and state credits and rebates makes them particularly attractive to other markets. Of course, this leads to some problems because the US e-Golf has a Type-1 CCS port and some of them have been exported to Iceland where they use Type-2 CCS. So, fast charging the car there is impossible, or at least prohibitively expensive to modify to work.

miimura said:

For most automakers, lease turn-ins don't stay at the same dealership. Toyota collects them and auctions them off. However, if you really want the same car back you can Google the VIN over the following weeks and months to see where it turns up. Most people don't bother because they need a replacement car before or soon after their lease return.

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Yup. I was surprised to find my ex-lease Leaf at a CarMax less than a month later, for about $7k off the original residual price. Nissan offered to reduce that by $5k but I ended up getting the eGolf instead.

I thought the Nissan dealer where I turned it in would put it in their used car lot, as it was in great condition and had only around 26k miles over 3 years. But it lacked a QC port and that could have been the reason why it was put to auction. It seems like Nissan dealers like to snatch up the QC-equipped Leafs at auction from what someone posted over at MyNissanLeaf.

johnnylingo said:

BMW i3 owners have been experiencing this too. Residuals ~$30k when the fair market value was under 25. In many cases they turned their car in and then bought it off the used lot from the same dealer.

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I have been considering doing that, and I know one person who did that with a Nissan Leaf, but so far I haven't found any used eGolfs for under $13k, and even at that price that's a bit more than my residual, plus like with any used car I'm taking a gamble that the car doesn't have a bunch of problems and/or was abused.

RonDawg said:

miimura said:

For most automakers, lease turn-ins don't stay at the same dealership. Toyota collects them and auctions them off. However, if you really want the same car back you can Google the VIN over the following weeks and months to see where it turns up. Most people don't bother because they need a replacement car before or soon after their lease return.

Click to expand...

Yup. I was surprised to find my ex-lease Leaf at a CarMax less than a month later, for about $7k off the original residual price. Nissan offered to reduce that by $5k but I ended up getting the eGolf instead.

I thought the Nissan dealer where I turned it in would put it in their used car lot, as it was in great condition and had only around 26k miles over 3 years. But it lacked a QC port and that could have been the reason why it was put to auction. It seems like Nissan dealers like to snatch up the QC-equipped Leafs at auction from what someone posted over at MyNissanLeaf.

johnnylingo said:

BMW i3 owners have been experiencing this too. Residuals ~$30k when the fair market value was under 25. In many cases they turned their car in and then bought it off the used lot from the same dealer.

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I have been considering doing that, and I know one person who did that with a Nissan Leaf, but so far I haven't found any used eGolfs for under $13k, and even at that price that's a bit more than my residual, plus like with any used car I'm taking a gamble that the car doesn't have a bunch of problems and/or was abused.

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What do you consider as abuse for a Leased e-Golf?

RonDawg said:

johnnylingo said:

BMW i3 owners have been experiencing this too. Residuals ~$30k when the fair market value was under 25. In many cases they turned their car in and then bought it off the used lot from the same dealer.

Click to expand...

I have been considering doing that, and I know one person who did that with a Nissan Leaf, but so far I haven't found any used eGolfs for under $13k, and even at that price that's a bit more than my residual, plus like with any used car I'm taking a gamble that the car doesn't have a bunch of problems and/or was abused.

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According to Cars.com there are 3 in the SoCal area that is selling for $15k.

JoulesThief said:

What do you consider as abuse for a Leased e-Golf?

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Same as any other car. Someone who didn't take care of it, "ran it into the ground", took deep potholes at speed, etc. Not all used eGolfs are off-lease, some were purchased new like you did with yours.

forbin404 said:

According to Cars.com there are 3 in the SoCal area that is selling for $15k.

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Which is my point. So far I have not been able to find a used eGolf for less money than the residual of my own car. That's the exact opposite of the Leaf I had before it, used ones were going for thousands less than the stated residual. eGolfs are holding onto their value better than the Leaf for some reason.

If the tax reform plan currently being debated by Congress goes into effect, and we lose the $7500 tax credit, I suspect the prices of used EVs overall will start to climb.

RonDawg said:

forbin404 said:

According to Cars.com there are 3 in the SoCal area that is selling for $15k.

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Which is my point. So far I have not been able to find a used eGolf for less money than the residual of my own car. That's the exact opposite of the Leaf I had before it, used ones were going for thousands less than the stated residual. eGolfs are holding onto their value better than the Leaf for some reason.

If the tax reform plan currently being debated by Congress goes into effect, and we lose the $7500 tax credit, I suspect the prices of used EVs overall will start to climb.

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Do you think a lot of folks will dump their Tesla 3 orders too, if it goes into effect?

JoulesThief said:

RonDawg said:

If the tax reform plan currently being debated by Congress goes into effect, and we lose the $7500 tax credit, I suspect the prices of used EVs overall will start to climb.

Click to expand...

Do you think a lot of folks will dump their Tesla 3 orders too, if it goes into effect?

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If news reports are to be believed, a lot of Tesla Model 3 customers will lose out on the tax credit even if it stays intact, as Tesla would have burned through the 200k quota by the time they receive their cars. Sales of all new plug-ins will definitely be affected if the credit is eliminated.

RonDawg said:

JoulesThief said:

RonDawg said:

If the tax reform plan currently being debated by Congress goes into effect, and we lose the $7500 tax credit, I suspect the prices of used EVs overall will start to climb.

Click to expand...

Do you think a lot of folks will dump their Tesla 3 orders too, if it goes into effect?

Click to expand...

If news reports are to be believed, a lot of Tesla Model 3 customers will lose out on the tax credit even if it stays intact, as Tesla would have burned through the 200k quota by the time they receive their cars. Sales of all new plug-ins will definitely be affected if the credit is eliminated.

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Without the $7500 tax credit and the $2500 CA rebate, there's no way I'd buy a new e-Golf for $38k. Nor do I think anyone else is going to spend so much money for so little car.

Lease ended on the 2015 and picked up a 2017 a week ago - the lease did end up being quite a bit more expensive - residual not as good now. Seeing 150 miles range when charged is really a bit of a game changer - the 2015 range was mostly fine - but this just seems to free things up a lot... And a good bit of powertrain refinement - less head jerking and tire skidding in normal mode but still super fun. And Carplay on the SEL is a nice touch - will be doing a lot of touch screen cleaning however... Cheap hard plastic on the interior door handle the only sour note - was it always this chintzy? Or am I just spoiled by the Audi e-tron that is our other car?

Well, I traded in my 2015 e-Golf SE this weekend. I thought about getting a 2017 e-golf, but the lease deals weren't as good this time around. Instead, I replaced it with a 2017 Kia Soul EV+ (Leather, Nav... very well equipped). It's better equipped than my SE, and the lease deal was very good: 36/15k for $940 + tax & lic. out of pocket, and $192.96 per moth. They also took my e-golf off my hands for $12500 on the trade in, with $550 going into the cost cap reduction (residual was $11950). This was really a great deal for me as oppose to just turning it in, since I didn't have to pay the disposition fee, fix the little dents, replace the tires or brake pads or anything else that I would have had to do had I just turned it in. So all around, I think I made out very well.

The range on the 2017 Soul EV (93mi) is not as good as the new VW's (125mi) or even the 2018 Soul EV (111mi.), but 93mi is better than the 2015 VW I'm replacing and it's more than enough for my daily commute needs.

I'll miss the VW, but I'm already digging the new Soul.

I was in Santa Monica tonight so I decided to stop by the local VW dealer. I originally thought about keeping my car as the miles are low. But, if I can get a new SE + DC for not much more out of pocket after Federal and CA incentives (I am eligible for one more state rebate), I may do that instead.

Salesman met me as I was looking at an Atlantic Blue SE + DC right in front of their showroom. He said that VW isn't offering particularly good incentives right now but that may change in a few weeks. I gave him my info and he said he'd call/email me when that happens.

So this is what I have to ponder in the meantime:

Advantages of keeping my 2015 SEL:
1. Least expensive option
2. I get all the goodies that come with the SEL trim like LED headlights, auto dimming mirror, and parking sensors
3. I really like the Pacific Blue which is no longer available; Atlantic Blue is OK but a bit darker than I'd like
4. I get a heat pump, preserving range

Disadvantages of keeping my 2015 eGolf:
1. Roughly 2/3 the range of a 2017 model when new, and degradation will only get worse with time, though not as bad as my Leaf at this point
2. Bumper to bumper warranty will have elapsed, leaving only the remainders of the 5 year high voltage and 8 year battery warranties. (The salesman did say that for about $2k, I can have the car "certified" at the dealer as if it was going to be sold as a CPO, and that includes a 2 year warranty extension on the bumper to bumper.)

Advantages of getting a new eGolf:
1. Full factory warranty, though sadly not the 6 year warranty VW is including with its other products now
2. Features/improvements that were introduced since 2015, including Apple Car Play/Android Auto, larger infotainment screen, ability to set charging times/percentages without CarNet, possibly better compatibility with Clipper Creek EVSE?
3. Like the cloth of the SE version better than my SEL's leatherette

Disadvantages of new eGolf:
1. For my budget, I have to go with an SE; SEL even without options is more than I am willing to pay. So no LED headlights, no auto-dimming mirror (can get a VW accessory one though), no front/rear sensors (rear I think can be had via official accessory but not front), no leatherette but I would prefer cloth anyway
2. Even with an SE I am likely going to be paying more than the residual of my SEL, even with government incentives factored in
3. More energy-intensive resistive heater (may not be an issue with the larger range)

I just turned in my leased 2015 SEL and purchased a 2017 LE. I agree with your assessment - I was not willing to spend the $$ to get an SEL. I find the LE perfect for me as I like the faux leather seats, heat pump, DCFC port and parking sensors. It works fine with my Clipper Creek HCS-40P for delayed charging. The dealer took a huge chunk off the MSRP, and combined with the Federal and State money, and 0% APR for 5 years, it was hard not to buy it. I also decided that I can baby the larger battery in the 2017 e-Golf by only charging it to 80% routinely and still go 3 days between recharging, and the larger pack enables me to make most of my journeys without the need to stop for DCFC.

I find the manual dimming mirror just fine, as my right arm and hand work just fine to flip the mirror lever. Also, the halogen headlights, while not as bright as the LEDs, are still very good in brightness and coverage and I have no issues seeing the road at night.

You might be able to get $7,300 off the SE+DCFC MSRP in the SF Bay area, so that softens the blow to your wallet. Best of luck.

RonDawg said:

3. Like the cloth of the SE version better than my SEL's leatherette

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Know that you can stain the cloth seats just by looking at them funny.

I've honestly never seen a material so easy to stain and so difficult to clean, let alone one used for a car seat. Simply getting the seat wet with water will cause a mark. I really don't know what VW was thinking.

If you do get cloth seats, immediately ScotchGuard it or do something similar.

Yeah Rondawg, that is a squeaker of a tough decision... I feel for you. I'm in the same boat, but I own my 2015 SEL, and right now, I just can't make the numbers work. I'd have a lot less hesitation using the DC fast charge feature on that larger battery, it would do much less wear and tear due to the larger capacity, the C recharge rate effect is about 50% less. Putting 20 kwh in that battery in 30 minutes in a half hour is hardly very hard on the bigger capacity battery, IMHO. Still, that would be for emergencies and rare situations only. 99.5% of the time, it would still recharge in the garage over night.