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 Post subject: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:39 am
Posts: 10
Good day,

I am wondering if any of you did some math on the impact of that 14K incentive in Ontario with regards to the end of the Lease or Finance.

If the incentive is no longer available in 2019: (we dont know)
Then it seems you are paying less on a 3 year lease but you have no car at the end and no more incentive to get going again.
At least on a finance, you can trade it in or keep it with a decent 14K discount on MSRP.

If the incentive is still available in 2019 or 2020:
Then likely, it would make sense to lease and take the incentive again. Nobody will buy your 3 or 4 YO car at a decent price if an incentive is still around...
Once the market starts having more lease returns, the dealers will have to make those lease returns attractive to buy which tells me that those who finance the car will loose money...
Batteries will also get better and cars will have a better range... I read VW is looking to have a car on the market that will be in the 500Km Range and be able to charge in 15 min before 2025...


Like everything in the government, I think once people really start getting into electric cars... The incentive will be done quickly.

So I am not sure if leasing is better than buying or vice versa...

What do you guys think?
It may be better to lease the first generation of Egolf until the range is there...?


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:27 am 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 1:50 pm
Posts: 76
TheBoss wrote:
Good day,

I am wondering if any of you did some math on the impact of that 14K incentive in Ontario with regards to the end of the Lease or Finance.

If the incentive is no longer available in 2019: (we dont know)
Then it seems you are paying less on a 3 year lease but you have no car at the end and no more incentive to get going again.
At least on a finance, you can trade it in or keep it with a decent 14K discount on MSRP.

If the incentive is still available in 2019 or 2020:
Then likely, it would make sense to lease and take the incentive again. Nobody will buy your 3 or 4 YO car at a decent price if an incentive is still around...
Once the market starts having more lease returns, the dealers will have to make those lease returns attractive to buy which tells me that those who finance the car will loose money...
Batteries will also get better and cars will have a better range... I read VW is looking to have a car on the market that will be in the 500Km Range and be able to charge in 15 min before 2025...


Like everything in the government, I think once people really start getting into electric cars... The incentive will be done quickly.

So I am not sure if leasing is better than buying or vice versa...

What do you guys think?
It may be better to lease the first generation of Egolf until the range is there...?


I purchased , retired and no business to expense the lease on ..

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2017 black eGolf
2009 2.5 Jetta
2013Honda Pilot
1976 MGB
maintain nanas 2013 VW jetta


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:24 am
Posts: 729
Location: SoCal
Kosta wrote:
I purchased , retired and no business to expense the lease on ..


On this side of the border, for most EV's it's actually better to lease the car, even if you intend to buy it at lease end, regardless if you can write it off. The reason is how our Federal $7500 Tax Credit for EV's is structured: when you purchase, it's not taken off the purchase price directly, but rather you apply for it when you do that year's taxes. Depending on your particular tax situation, you may or may not be able to take the full $7500 credit.

But when you lease, AND the manufacturer has agreed to pass on the credits to the consumer (who otherwise cannot apply for it, since they technically do not own the car in a lease), that $7500 is taken off the Capitalized Cost (fancy lease term for agreed-to purchase price). Nissan, GM, FCA, and VW do pass this credit on; that's one reason they are able to offer good lease rates (insanely good in the case of the Fiat 500e) on their EV's. Not sure about Tesla or Ford (Focus Electric) or Mercedes (Smart Electric Drive, the just-discontinued Mercedes B-EV).

Lease rates on this side of the border, at least for Nissan and VW EV's, are so low that leasing then paying off the lease costs little more than buying outright. Retired folks with lots of savings but little in the way of taxable income have done just that to take full advantage of the tax credit. Plus there's the security blanket of knowing that if something more desirable comes by the time the lease term is up, you can toss them the keys and walk away and get something better.

May not be applicable to Canada, but it's something to consider as to why someone might lease.

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2015 eGolf SEL (originally leased, bought out lease)
former EV: 2012 Nissan Leaf SV (lease returned)
Range Extender: 2017 VW Golf Alltrack S 4Motion


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:38 am
Posts: 67
Here's why i leased:

1 - I still get the 14% discount over 3 years
2 - if the discount still exists after the 3 years, I can start again with another lease with a car that likely has a better motor and battery. EV tech is exploding right now and VW has already said they're looking at a 48kwh battery in the next eGolf, possibly in 2019.
3 - If the discount goes away, I can buy back for $15K, which is probably well below market value for a 3 year old Golf in Canada.
4 - I'm not really sure of VW's eGolf quality, especially in terms of electrical gremlins. So I don't want to be stuck with a lemon in the post-warranty stage.

If you want to keep the eGolf for more than 8 years, then yes... purchasing is probably the way to go. But for those of you with short or medium term plans, lease it.

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Patiently waiting for e-Golf since June 30th 2017


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:39 am
Posts: 10
Zeuser wrote:
Here's why i leased:

1 - I still get the 14% discount over 3 years
2 - if the discount still exists after the 3 years, I can start again with another lease with a car that likely has a better motor and battery. EV tech is exploding right now and VW has already said they're looking at a 48kwh battery in the next eGolf, possibly in 2019.
3 - If the discount goes away, I can buy back for $15K, which is probably well below market value for a 3 year old Golf in Canada.
4 - I'm not really sure of VW's eGolf quality, especially in terms of electrical gremlins. So I don't want to be stuck with a lemon in the post-warranty stage.

If you want to keep the eGolf for more than 8 years, then yes... purchasing is probably the way to go. But for those of you with short or medium term plans, lease it.



I agree with you.

The current specs are:
• 35.8 kWh high-voltage battery
• 50 kW DC Fast Charging, Combined Charging System (CCS)
• 7.2 kW AC onboard charger

The batteries will get better and hopefully cheaper enough so it translates in the car's MSRP...
I cant see myself in 3 years not wanting another golf with a bigger battery that will likely charge faster...

i will lease.

If my calculations are correct:
-MSRP 35995$
-With all the fees and taxes: 43750$
-if the residual is around 50% for a 36 month lease
- interest rate is 1.99% or less (loyalty program)
-With a 4000$ down or 3500$ trade
-14000$ cash incentive divided by 36 Months to offset Total car cost.
Payments would be around 251$/month including all the fees and taxes.


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:13 pm
Posts: 1194
Location: Los Altos, CA
I would expect the residual to be something between 40% and 50%. Mine was 46.7% of the agreed selling price in 4/2015. If they really took all incentives into account, it would be even less.

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2015 e-Golf LE (returned) | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 2012 RAV4 EV Shoreline w/JdeMO | Leviton EVB40 & Jesla Home Charging | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV + 2x Powerwall 2 AC


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:30 am 
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Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 8:38 am
Posts: 44
Location: Toronto, Canada
I have just placed a deposit for a 2018 e-Golf here in Canada. The residual for a lease (although this will change in 6 months when it will finally be ready) is currently 44% for three years and 37% for four years. No reduction on price, so I paid MSRP, just the "dealer fee" on top of that.
I plan on leasing for three years for the same reasons as other people. I have read (although I can't find the source right now), the 2019 will have a larger battery and more powerful motor. The technology in these cars changes so fast it will be nice to have the option to hand the car back and see what other BEV are available in three years.


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 755
flyboy320 wrote:
I have just placed a deposit for a 2018 e-Golf here in Canada. The residual for a lease (although this will change in 6 months when it will finally be ready) is currently 44% for three years and 37% for four years. No reduction on price, so I paid MSRP, just the "dealer fee" on top of that.
I plan on leasing for three years for the same reasons as other people. I have read (although I can't find the source right now), the 2019 will have a larger battery and more powerful motor. The technology in these cars changes so fast it will be nice to have the option to hand the car back and see what other BEV are available in three years.

44%? Nice, mine was 39% but came with a bunch of rebates.

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2017 Kia Soul EV+
2016 e-Golf SE

2015 Fiat 500e (Returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:39 am
Posts: 10
From what I understand; Here in Canada, they dont apply any provincial rebate at the dealer.
You must pay the full price and deal with the Gov for your rebate.


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Buying VS leasing
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:39 am
Posts: 10
flyboy320 wrote:
I have just placed a deposit for a 2018 e-Golf here in Canada. The residual for a lease (although this will change in 6 months when it will finally be ready) is currently 44% for three years and 37% for four years. No reduction on price, so I paid MSRP, just the "dealer fee" on top of that.
I plan on leasing for three years for the same reasons as other people. I have read (although I can't find the source right now), the 2019 will have a larger battery and more powerful motor. The technology in these cars changes so fast it will be nice to have the option to hand the car back and see what other BEV are available in three years.




Hey Forbin404,

If you dont mind me asking, What was your cash down/ trade?
What was your final cost / Month?


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