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 Post subject: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:56 pm 
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New to this forum, however I enjoy quite a few others. I browsed around here for the last few days trying to gather facts and opinions as I descend into the EV world. I currently drive a 2017 4Runner and love it, let me just say I will not be getting rid of it. Over the last year my job has required me to work all over the Twin Cities (Minnesota). I enjoy the time I get in my 4runner and know the miles will not affect the value too much. Obviously the MPG is terrible, which is what has brought me to this situation. I love the idea of an EV for the environmental part as well as the cost savings. That being said I am not a fan of the Prius, hate the look of the Leaf (love the MPGe specs of the 2016 SV) and just can't think of owning a Kia. I test drove a 2016 SE CPO with 13,000 miles. I loved it right away and almost impulsively pulled the trigger on the spot.

Sorry for rambling, so here are my concerns: 3.6 Kwh charger on the SE, Currently I drive roughly 280-350 miles per week. Typically the longest trip in one day would be just about 80 miles RT primarily highway with some stop and go rush hour traffic. Average would be closer to 40 RT in a day with a 60% highway usage. It would also probably become the soccer practice transporter and grocery hauler which is all within my suburb (8 miles RT). I would install a level 2 charger at home but there are very few places I could stop when not at home. On my 80 mile RT day(s) there is a level 2 system at the half way point (40 miles) that I could stop at for lunch but I can't see how 1 hour at 3.6kwh would help me. Does this seem practical for the golf?

Second; Longevity, I live in MN and own a 4Runner so I would imagine that the second we had measurable snow it would sit in the heated garage which could be roughly December-March. I understand letting the battery sit that long is not the best so my intent would be take it out now and then if the roads are cleared. I have a 14 year old and would love to give him this for a car in 2021 when he can drive and start learning to drive on next year. School is 4 miles RT and I would imagine he would have a local PT job and still play soccer all within the city limits. Is it practical to think the golf battery will suffice to even get him out of high school? Better yet college? (He would graduate high school 2023). Guessing that with the miles I would drive it, the car would have 32,000 miles on it by the time he has his license.

Pricing; so again, 2016 SE CPO with 13,000 miles. They are asking $13,950 and say they won't budge anymore. Looks like in service date was 10/2015 in California, puts the battery warranty out to 10/2023. Between the $50 a week in gas I pay now and the .56 cents per mile my company pays me for my travels I feel like the golf will pay for itself. Online seems variable for pricing by region but is this a decent price? I know that is subjective but maybe I a missing something.

Thanks for any insight. If I didn't love my 4runner I would just go with a Tesla but I can't afford that many nice things at one time :lol: .


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Posts: 403
Good for you for considering an EV. Considering you live in a very cold place, you will lose a lot of range in the winter. Making that 80 mile RT drive will be very difficult. I think you should not consider an EV that you can't DC fast charge and you should be able to at least charge at 6 kW. (kWh is energy content, kW is charge rate). The SEL e-Golf will charge up to 7.2 kW. Trying to pick up 40 miles of range over lunch is only possible with DC Fast charging, so again, you need DCFC. Can you find a 2016 SE with the quick charge package? Then you'll be able to draw up to 30 amps (240x30=7200 watts or 7.2 kW) maximum. Best of luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:23 pm
Posts: 29
Location: VT
f1geek wrote:
Good for you for considering an EV. Considering you live in a very cold place, you will lose a lot of range in the winter. Making that 80 mile RT drive will be very difficult. I think you should not consider an EV that you can't DC fast charge and you should be able to at least charge at 6 kW. (kWh is energy content, kW is charge rate). The SEL e-Golf will charge up to 7.2 kW. Trying to pick up 40 miles of range over lunch is only possible with DC Fast charging, so again, you need DCFC. Can you find a 2016 SE with the quick charge package? Then you'll be able to draw up to 30 amps (240x30=7200 watts or 7.2 kW) maximum. Best of luck.


Agreed, you will lose mileage attempting to stay warm while you drive. Where you are, you can't go without heat. I pulled up the Twin Cities on PlugShare & selected only J-1772 (Level 2) & CCS/SAE (DCFC). My map brought up 150+ stations. Decent DC charge layout with Goodwill locations. You could pop some tags with the $20 in your pocket that you saved not driving your ICE... Even with filtering out anything with a Plugshare rating of 8 or greater, I still got 130+ stations. With over a dozen DCFC locations strategically laid out.

Do not know your Home Base Location, consider though. Are you in & around the TC or are you traveling from the outskirts? If you are in & around, I see no problem. Plus if you are parked while at work, can you plug in? My boss lets me. My wife's job has a Level 2 at her work, although it is 2 miles from my house (we have a 7.2KW at home). Forward thinking only comes after you learn a cars limitations... Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:56 am
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I wouldn't even consider any EV in that environment and a routine 80 mile round trip that didn't have at least 150 mi range.

1) You're using heat.
2) You're range will drop 25% alone in sub-freezing temps, even without using heat.
3) You're range will drop as the battery ages.
4) You shouldn't rely soley on the availability and proper operation of a public charging station.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:32 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.

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2016 e-Golf SE in Urano Grey leased 8/1/2016 for $1500 down + $50 x 24 months * Purchased 7/31/2018 * ChargePoint Home 32a (wired)
2018 BMW i3s REx in Mineral Gray purchased 6/12/2018 w/ Giga, Tech, Parking, CarPlay, Harmon Kardons, and of course Moonroof


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:03 am 
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Thank you all for the information. I guess I need to clarify a few things that I did not make clear.

The 80 mile RT happens no more than 4 times a month, sometimes its only 1 or 2 times per month.

Here is a typical week

Monday- 36 miles RT for work 4-8miles RT for errands and kids
Tuesday- 50 miles Rt for work 4-8 miles RT for kids
Wednesday 36 miles RT
Thursday 50 miles RT
Friday- 35 miles Rt
Saturday- 10-15 miles for kids and activities
Sunday- 10-15 miles

This is baseline. My kids soccer games may take me out to other parts of town but no more than an additional 20 miles RT and usually only 1 time per week.

As far as cold. I mentioned my 4Runner. The Golf would become the practice and grocery getter for the winter/cold months. Probably would not see more than 200 miles a month from December-March.

Does this change things? I am understanding EV's are similar to many other electronics and there is always something new and "cool" coming out.

I would love a 2017 SEL but as a 3rd vehicle the pricing doesn't make sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
Posts: 2251
Wait another year for 2017's to come off of lease. Then you'll have sufficient range.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:31 pm 
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johnnylingo wrote:
Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.


Could you help me understand the benefit of the heat pump, only available in SEL model? Yield extra ~30 miles range during winter? In other words, SEL model with heat ON is less stress for a driver with range anxiety?
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:28 pm 
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Posts: 2251
mpulsiv wrote:
johnnylingo wrote:
Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.


Could you help me understand the benefit of the heat pump, only available in SEL model? Yield extra ~30 miles range during winter? In other words, SEL model with heat ON is less stress for a driver with range anxiety?
Thanks.


Honestly, forget the heater.... heating air is a HUUUUGE waste of your batteries energy. Dress appropriately for the weather, do the same for inside of your e-Golf, and use the seat heaters for heat, not the heater vents. wear enough layers of clothing and gloves to stay warm. The energy stored is close to about maybe 3-4 gallons of gas in that battery, and it takes a hell of a lot longer to refill, too, than a fuel tank . It's a REALLY bad idea to run the battery charge gauge down into the red zone. RED zone means "STOP what you are doing and fix the problem, in this case, recharge. Always good to leave at least 1/4 tank charge in your battery, 2 notches above the red zone. Your battery and it's longevity and life will thank you for it later in life.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering a 2016 SE CPO
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:23 pm
Posts: 29
Location: VT
JoulesThief wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:
johnnylingo wrote:
Agreed. I think realistically you'd need a car with at least 100 miles range w/ heat pump or 130 miles without heat pump, and that's assuming no battery degradation. For the e-Golf, this would mean a 2017/2018/2019, ideally the SEL since it's got the heat pump.

2017 Leaf or Focus could also be options on the used market in the $15-20k price range, but I don't know offhand if they have heat pumps.

A 2015 BMW i3 w/ Range Extender might be a more pragmatic option since most of your miles will be electric but the range anxiety will be gone.


Could you help me understand the benefit of the heat pump, only available in SEL model? Yield extra ~30 miles range during winter? In other words, SEL model with heat ON is less stress for a driver with range anxiety?
Thanks.


Honestly, forget the heater.... heating air is a HUUUUGE waste of your batteries energy. Dress appropriately for the weather, do the same for inside of your e-Golf, and use the seat heaters for heat, not the heater vents. wear enough layers of clothing and gloves to stay warm. The energy stored is close to about maybe 3-4 gallons of gas in that battery, and it takes a hell of a lot longer to refill, too, than a fuel tank . It's a REALLY bad idea to run the battery charge gauge down into the red zone. RED zone means "STOP what you are doing and fix the problem, in this case, recharge. Always good to leave at least 1/4 tank charge in your battery, 2 notches above the red zone. Your battery and it's longevity and life will thank you for it later in life.


Says the guy in Southern California... When the temperature is (for a high) -11°F and the low for the night is -40°F you WILL use your heat AND dress appropriately regardless. It is a car, not a freezer.

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