on/off button while driving

bizzle said:

forbin404 said:

The car allows you to change modes while driving and that is intentional.

Click to expand...

I described to you what happens when you switch it while you're driving and, while it can't physically stop you from pressing the button, it certainly doesn't immediately shift modes when you shift from Normal into one of the Eco modes.

Click to expand...

Push it twice and it does.

Push the power button twice and the car shuts down. And just because they use it 'on their other cars' doesn't make it a stupid design.
Putting two buttons next to each other of that nature (One gives better mileage and the other shuts the car down) is bad stupid design.

I don't own a porsche
button according to this google link
https://www.google.com/search?q=porsche+on+off+button&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBnqn-jazKAhUCNSYKHRDBAD0QsAQILg&biw=1920&bih=955#tbm=isch&q=porsche+start+stop+button&imgrc=_

Most of the time the button is away, the Golf GTI also appears to have it on the console but no other buttons are near.
HOWEVER
The Audi does appear to put the Start / Stop button right next to the NAVI TELEPHONE Switch! Omg now that's even MORE stupid than the Eco

And of course these are all Volkswagen products.

forbin404 said:

bizzle said:

forbin404 said:

The car allows you to change modes while driving and that is intentional.

Click to expand...

I described to you what happens when you switch it while you're driving and, while it can't physically stop you from pressing the button, it certainly doesn't immediately shift modes when you shift from Normal into one of the Eco modes.

Click to expand...

Push it twice and it does.

Push the power button twice and the car shuts down. And just because they use it 'on their other cars' doesn't make it a stupid design.
Putting two buttons next to each other of that nature (One gives better mileage and the other shuts the car down) is bad stupid design.

I don't own a porsche
button according to this google link
https://www.google.com/search?q=porsche+on+off+button&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBnqn-jazKAhUCNSYKHRDBAD0QsAQILg&biw=1920&bih=955#tbm=isch&q=porsche+start+stop+button&imgrc=_

Most of the time the button is away, the Golf GTI also appears to have it on the console but no other buttons are near.
HOWEVER
The Audi does appear to put the Start / Stop button right next to the NAVI TELEPHONE Switch! Omg now that's even MORE stupid than the Eco

And of course these are all Volkswagen products.

Click to expand...

Buy a BMW next time, I guess? VW isn't going to change their production for people that don't even read the owners manual.

JoulesThief said:

Buy a BMW next time, I guess? VW isn't going to change their production for people that don't even read the owners manual.

Click to expand...

You love to quote the owners manual don't you. You even say that when the manual doesn't cover something.

Cars are meant to be driven by 90% of the population that can drive.
Over 50% of the population isn't the smartest.

building a car for the 'smart ones only' is well...pretty stupid.

And something small like 'putting two buttons next to each other' is all a lawyer needs to prove fault when a bad accident happens. Hence why it is stupid.
And do I believe VW will change their production? Nah, this is the same company that is subject to a worldwide class action after all.

I just marvel at how something simple like 'do not put these two buttons together' got past all the QA.

forbin404 said:

JoulesThief said:

Buy a BMW next time, I guess? VW isn't going to change their production for people that don't even read the owners manual.

Click to expand...

You love to quote the owners manual don't you. You even say that when the manual doesn't cover something.

Cars are meant to be driven by 90% of the population that can drive.
Over 50% of the population isn't the smartest.

building a car for the 'smart ones only' is well...pretty stupid.

And something small like 'putting two buttons next to each other' is all a lawyer needs to prove fault when a bad accident happens. Hence why it is stupid.
And do I believe VW will change their production? Nah, this is the same company that is subject to a worldwide class action after all.

I just marvel at how something simple like 'do not put these two buttons together' got past all the QA.

Click to expand...

If you don't like the product, don't be a repeat buyer.

German cars require the new owner to go through an adaptation process. Most make it, some don't. Those that don't end up whining, those that do accept german engineering and the foibles that go along with it. You can't please all the people, all of the time.

Then there is that time honored saying: "ignorance is no excuse" That goes both for the law, and for RTFM. And if you still don't understand, call or visit the dealership for an explanation or clarification. Don't be lazy about it, if it bothers you enough, do something about it.

How about you design and build a car for the masses, since you have great ideas for perfection in automotive design?

My perspective of "Eco" mode and "Eco+" mode is that they are gimmicks for people without the discipline to drive the car efficiently, mere crutches for operator error, if you've goals you need to attain in driving an electric car.

forbin404 said:

bizzle said:

forbin404 said:

The car allows you to change modes while driving and that is intentional.

Click to expand...

I described to you what happens when you switch it while you're driving and, while it can't physically stop you from pressing the button, it certainly doesn't immediately shift modes when you shift from Normal into one of the Eco modes.

Click to expand...

Push it twice and it does.

Click to expand...

No, it does not. You are saying this because you either haven't tried and don't actually know that it doesn't change modes or you are being contrarian.

Regardless of how many times you press it, the display will show that the mode has changed, but the car's behavior will not change.

Go ahead and try it today. It's not a great mystery. We are all presumably driving eGolf's. So unless my car is broken, when you are driving down the freeway at 80+ mph and try to change into an Eco mode it will not limit your power or top speed until you've dropped below the mode's threshold.

You can try and force it into Eco+ but it won't suddenly slow you down below 55mph and doesn't make the accelerator go soft.
But as soon as you drop below 55 you can feel the car actually shift into the mode you selected.

Beside all that, the buttons are also shaped completely differently, at least in mine. I don't know what you are doing to "accidentally" hit the big round on/off button instead of the rectangular mode button unless you aren't paying attention to your car.

More importantly, after you did it once, why continue to make the same error? Human beings are remarkable in their pattern recognition, I suggest you use it.

bizzle said:

No, it does not. You are saying this because you either haven't tried and don't actually know that it doesn't change modes or you are being contrarian.

Regardless of how many times you press it, the display will show that the mode has changed, but the car's behavior will not change.

Go ahead and try it today. It's not a great mystery. We are all presumably driving eGolf's. So unless my car is broken, when you are driving down the freeway at 80+ mph and try to change into an Eco mode it will not limit your power or top speed until you've dropped below the mode's threshold.

You can try and force it into Eco+ but it won't suddenly slow you down below 55mph and doesn't make the accelerator go soft.
But as soon as you drop below 55 you can feel the car actually shift into the mode you selected.

Beside all that, the buttons are also shaped completely differently, at least in mine. I don't know what you are doing to "accidentally" hit the big round on/off button instead of the rectangular mode button unless you aren't paying attention to your car.

More importantly, after you did it once, why continue to make the same error? Human beings are remarkable in their pattern recognition, I suggest you use it.

Click to expand...

Sigh, first Joules and now Bizzle.

YES I HAVE TRIED IT.
Push the eco button twice and it goes from Driving to ECO and push it one more time while it is up on the display and it goes to ECO+. Now this might apply to the 2016 SE only (which I have) but I have successfully changed from Driving to Eco to Eco plus without touching the entertainment console.

Now have I tried to push the ON/OFF twice in a row? No, because I'm not nuts enough to shut my car off after it's driving at 55+ on the freeway.
But I can see someone doing it.

forbin404 said:

bizzle said:

Now have I tried to push the ON/OFF twice in a row? No, because I'm not nuts enough to shut my car off after it's driving at 55+ on the freeway.
But I can see someone doing it.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

So, you can see someone, being an idiot operator, that also didn't RTFM. Not your problem, not your concern. It's their problem. You can only be concerned about that which you have control over. Not much else. Because it is common knowledge, you can't fix stupid, and if you try to make it stupid proof, they'll make a dumber stupid. Or, as you call it, nuts.

forbin404 said:

YES I HAVE TRIED IT.
Push the eco button twice and it goes from Driving to ECO and push it one more time while it is up on the display and it goes to ECO+. Now this might apply to the 2016 SE only (which I have) but I have successfully changed from Driving to Eco to Eco plus without touching the entertainment console.

Click to expand...

I understand your point that the mode changes on the console, but you seem to be misunderstanding my point that the behavior of the car does not actually change.

The car protects itself just like an automatic transmission will protect itself from someone putting it in too low a gear. Yes, you can force the handle into a lower gear, but that doesn't mean you're driving in that gear. An automatic transmission that is forced into a low gear like that will not actually operate in that gear and blow itself up. It waits until your speed drops to the threshold and then switches automatically, just like the modes on our eGolfs.

I just got my eGolf and after 5 days have done this twice. This is a safety problem requiring a Software update to lockout the START ENGINE STOP button while the car is in Drive or B.

I found this thread and joined MYVWeGolf after posting over at VW Vortex last night so am not the only one to do this.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8213066-Danger-Warning-Do-Not-Press-START-ENGINE-STOP-Button-Instead-Of-MODE

Here is my email just sent to the dealership that I just leased the car from:

Who should I contact either at your dealer service department to discuss the following issue or VW of America?

The problem is that in 5 days of having the car have done the following twice:

1. While driving, fortunately once prior to making a left turn and less fortunately last night in the middle of an intersection, I accidently pressed the START ENGINE STOP button instead of the MODE button. This kills the car and is extremely dangerous since comes to a complete halt. There was no accident in either incident but scared me.

2. The START ENGINE STOP button is adjacent to the MODE button which allows selection from NORMAL to ECO to ECO+.

3. The car always starts in NORMAL mode so if one is low on range as I was both times, I usually switch to ECO or ECO+ but had already started driving when I realized I wanted to change MODES quickly. I like to keep my eyes on the road so reached down to where I thought the MODE button was and instead pressed START ENGINE STOP which dramatically turns off the car. It does not coast, but comes to an immediate stop.

4. It requires TWO presses of the START ENGINE STOP button to turn off the car (haven't verified this today) according to one of these VW Forum links below but would be consistent with what I did as follows in 5.

5. The dangerours thing is that it also requires TWO presses of the MODE button to change one level of MODE. The first press brings up the LCD screen and the second press changes the MODE. I had already "trained" myself subconsciously to do TWO quick presses of MODE to get quickly from NORMAL to ECO.

6. This safety issue is something that should have been identified by the VW engineers during what is called Human Factors Usablity studies, Risk Analysis, and what is called FMEA or Failure Modes Effects Analysis. I am a medical device engineer very familiar with design of products that have safety implications.

7. I started a Thread on my familiar VW Vortex forum with no replies so far but then did a search and found a 3 page Thread at MyVWeGolf.com so am not the first person to do this.

8. I would like to speak to someone immediately at VW and/or your Dealership to report this problem and find out if there is a way for Service to Lockout the START ENGINE STOP button when the car is in Drive or Reverse. Since I doubt this is something that Service can do, I figure this needs to be reported to VW Engineering for a Software update and Volutary Recall for all owners.

9. My next step if do not get a prompt response from VW will be to file a Safety Complaint with NHTSA at this link: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

Don't shift eco modes while in motion in your car. Really, it's that simple.

Push the brake pedal and hold it down, then press the start stop button, let the car boot up completely, then select the eco mode you want, then release the parking brake, then put the selector in gear. That is the proper procedure, you need to get used to it and adapt accordingly. The VW e-golf won't adapt to you.

Seriously, where, anywhere, does it say in the owners manual that you can change eco modes on the fly, while driving? There is no cure for stupid.

When driving, solve your problem, keep both hands on the steering wheel, instead of fiddling around with silly bells and whistles that distract you from the task at hand. I guess people like you need voice activation for everything. Sad.

You'd never make it as a pilot in a plane, there's tons of buttons right next to each other, all over the dash/firewall.

Very, very, very few people seem to have this problem. The exception is new owners. Get some familiarity with your car and how to make it function properly, without operator error, before you start whining to NHTSA.

Your 'handle' says it well... 1stEV4me. You've a lot of learning to do, since it's your first EV. A lot. Get used to being low on the learning curve, and don't do stupid stuff on the fly, while driving. It's going to take you some time to become proficient in your e-Golf, evidently, before you should fly solo.

In general, when driving a german car, EVERYTHING you need to do while driving the car while it is motion, is designed to be done with both hands either on the steering wheel, or in very, very close proximity of the steering wheel. If it's not located there, and you are in motion, you shouldn't be fiddling with it or adjusting it. Not much different from a pre flight check or an after flight check.

Relax, guys - there are people who know how to drive with one hand on the wheel temporarily. I have driven (and raced) many Volkswagens and BMWs with a manual transmission - that means there are times when I've shifted, turned the wheel with one hand, performed a heel and toe downshift and braked (using both feet) all at the same time. It's not trivial but I never blew an engine or crashed. JoulesThief would probably crap his pants (and ruin a perfectly good race suit), blow the engine and crash if he had brake, downshift and turn all at the same time because he thinks the Germans wouldn't like it. Talk about stupid. Ever hear of the Nurburgring?

Stupid is texting or talking on the phone while driving.

Considering how many people now or used to drive manual transmission cars, pressing a button is not that complicated an activity.

There are no issues with changing the drive mode on the fly. If the Germans at VW didn't want to allow it, they could defeat the button while the car is in motion (remember, VW won't let you remove the J1772 plug during L2 charging on a DCFC equipped e-Golf because they think it's dangerous). I switch modes all the time and I don't even need to look at the button or the screen. I don't think I'm special and I bet most people can manage it without problems.

If you don't feel comfortable changing modes while driving, then don't do it. If you don't feel comfortable chewing gum while walking and thinking, JoulesThief, then don't do it. It's that simple.

Just because the e-Golf is a German car doesn't mean you have to goosestep when you approach the car - the Germans have changed and so should you.

I'm not going to respond to the lecture on how to drive since am a former high performance driving instructor. I'm also a medical device engineer who does design assessment of products that take into account "User Error" by a doctor that might kill someone. The process is called Human Factors Usability and Risk Analysis and one aspect of that process is to what is called a FMEA or Failure Modes Effects Analysis. This should have been identified during that process and the VW design and quality engineers missed this one.

I have just had a lengthy Chat with VW CARE and they seemed to take my complaint very seriously and appreciated my reporting this issue:

VW CARE CHAT TRANSCRIPT:
Shared transcript from operator Ben RWednesday, September 28, 2016 2:21 PM
E-Golf Chat with Ben R.

***Begin Transcript***
01:51:05 Steve says:
My model is an eGolf and not shownthe dropdown menu
01:51:23 Steve says:
I need a phone number to speak with someone about filing a safety complaint
01:52:09 Ben R says:
Hello Steve, I am sorry to hear you are having safety concerns with your E-Golf. You can reach us here at 800-822-8987, however I can certainly assist you now over chat if you would like.
01:53:04 Steve says:
OK I will call, but if you would like to read the following email that I have just sent to my dealer you decide if you can help me?
01:53:21 Steve says:
Who should I contact either at your dealer service department to discuss the following issue or VW of America? The problem is that in 5 days of having the car have done the following twice: 1. While driving, fortunately once prior to making a left turn and less fortunately last night in the middle of an intersection, I accidently pressed the START ENGINE STOP button instead of the MODE button. This kills the car and is extremely dangerous since comes to a complete halt. There was no accident in either incident but scared me. 2. The START ENGINE STOP button is adjacent to the MODE button which allows selection from NORMAL to ECO to ECO+. 3. The car always starts in NORMAL mode so if one is lowrange as I was both times, I usually switch to ECO or ECO+ but had already started driving when I realized I wanted to change MODES quickly. I like to keep my eyesthe road so reached down to where I thought the MODE button was and instead pressed START ENGINE STOP which dramatically turns off the car. It does not coast, but comes to an immediate stop. 4. It requires TWO presses of the START ENGINE STOP button to turn off the car (haven't verified this today) according to one of these VW Forum links below but would be consistent with what I did as follows in 5. 5. The dangerours thing is that it also requires TWO presses of the MODE button to change one level of MODE. The first press brings up the LCD screen and the second press changes the MODE. I had already "trained" myself subconsciously to do TWO quick presses of MODE to get quickly from NORMAL to ECO. 6. This safety issue is something that should have been identified by the VW engineers during what is called Human Factors Usablity studies, Risk Analysis, and what is called FMEA or Failure Modes Effects Analysis. I am a medical device engineer very familiar with design of products that have safety implications. 7. I started a Threadmy familiar VW Vortex forum with no replies so far but then did a search and found a 3 page Thread at MyVWeGolf.com so am not the first person to do this. Here are the links: http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=537 http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8213066-Danger-Warning-Do-Not-Press-START-ENGINE-STOP-Button-Instead-Of-MODE 8. I would like to speak to someone immediately at VW and/or your Dealership to report this problem and find out if there is a way for Service to Lockout the START ENGINE STOP button when the car is in Drive or Reverse. Since I doubt this is something that Service can do, I figure this needs to be reported to VW Engineering for a Software update and Volutary Recall for all owners. 9. My next step if do not get a prompt response from VW will be to file a Safety Complaint with NHTSA at this link: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
01:53:56 Ben R says:
No problem, whichever you prefer. One moment please while I look over that for you.
01:54:35 Steve says:
OK take your time
01:57:12 Steve says:
I can also be reached at if you would like to get the appropriate person to contact me directly. This is a serious safety problem.
01:57:46 Ben R says:
Thanks for providing those details for me, I can certainly understand your concernthat. Do you happen to have your VIN handy? I will be happy to have this looked into a bit further for you.
01:58:37 Steve says:
VIN Deleted - VW eGolf 2016 Model SE. I leased it last weekend and have done this twice in 5 days. I am not the first one to do this.
01:59:14 Steve says:
It should be an easy Software fix to Lockout the START ENGINE START button if the car is moving.
02:00:46 Ben R says:
Thanks Steve, I can understand the reasoning for safety in that situation. If you don't mind, it will be just a few more minutes while I have this looked into for you.
02:01:39 Steve says:
Page 210 of the manual has a Warning to not do this but can be very easy to do especially at night since both buttons are illuminated and right next to each other. I have plenty of time since have the day off and want to get this addressed. I love the car by the way so far, a little shortrange if you drive fast but this really concerns me.
02:08:00 Ben R says:
Okay, thanks for your patience. I will be happy to have this experience and feedback documented as well as our conversation attached to your customer profile.
02:08:02 Ben R says:
However, I regret that there is not an additional point of contact at this time. We are constantly reviewing and researching our vehicle designs with NHTSA directly. You are more than welcome to report that as well, as those details do help us in future designs and changes. If you would like, I'd be happy to look up the contact information for NHTSA.
02:09:14 Steve says:
I have a link to file a complaint with NHTSA. So will someone from VW be contacting me with a resolution to this problem?
02:11:02 Steve says:
Should I call the VW number you provided or is this Chat with my written description of the problem sufficient to get VW Engineering to workthe problem?
02:11:37 Ben R says:
I understand, If any kind of campaign for your vehicle is released as the result of our research with NHTSA, we would reach out and notify you of the next steps. However, at this time, we wouldn't have additional follow up to offer.
02:13:31 Steve says:
OK thank you for your time and do not underestimate this problem since someone could be killed. I don't even want to think about what would happen if the START ENGINE STOP button was pressedthe freeway for example. Since this is an electric car with limited range the frequent use and changing of MODE from NORMAL to ECO to ECO+ is a very frequent activity when running out of range and trying to reach a destination.
02:14:10 Steve says:
Do you have anything else to say on the matter or shall we conclude our chat?
02:15:19 Ben R says:
I can understand where you are you coming from Steve and we do appreciate the feedback. I will be sure to note that part as well within the case notes, as that insight does get reported to contacts within VW, as well as NHTSA.
02:17:00 Steve says:
I am a mechanical engineer who designs medical devices that have potential for bodily injury or death so take safety into consideration when designing products since is a mandatory requirement. Cars follow the same level of safety analysis and possible "User Error" so this was missed by VW and needs resolution. Thanks again Ben.
02:17:40 Ben R says:
I do wish that we had more information to provide at this time but please do know that your concerns will documented and reviewed internally. Safety is certainly an important factor when reviewing details current and future models.
02:18:14 Steve says:
I am going to velcro a rigid plastic button I will buy at a hardware store over the START ENGINE STOP button in the meantime for my own safety.
02:19:04 Steve says:
Can I get a record of this Chat? You may email it to me at if possible.
02:19:30 Ben R says:
That is no problem, I will be happy to email you our chat transcript. Was there anything else I can assist you withthat today?
02:19:58 Steve says:
This is very good start and hope I have been helpful in reporting the problem.
02:20:04 Steve says:
I will look for your email.
02:20:43 Steve says:
Have a great day Ben.
02:20:51 Ben R says:
That information is certainly helpful to us in our reviewing. Please allow for a few minutes for the email to arrive.
02:20:56 Ben R says:
You too! If you have any other questions, feel free to come back and chat with us. If you've got the time, there's a quick survey when you disconnect the chat. I'd love to hear your feedback about your chat experience! Just click the x to leave the chat window, and it will pop up
02:21:12 Steve says:
OK bye.

***End Transcript***

Incident report filed with NHTSA.


This is a post at VW Vortex from someone who responded to my thread that came up with a nice "self training" workaround:

Hearing others' worry about this but never experiencing it myself, I quickly made a habit of pressing mode just once then selecting the desired mode on the infotainment screen.

This way, if you press the wrong button you will only press it once and the car will only prompt for shut down but not actually shut down.

I hope this helps you enjoy your e-golf safely

FirstEV4me said:

I'm not going to respond to the lecture on how to drive since am a former high performance driving instructor. I'm also a medical device engineer who does design assessment of products that take into account "User Error" by a doctor that might kill someone. The process is called Human Factors Usability and Risk Analysis and one aspect of that process is to what is called a FMEA or Failure Modes Effects Analysis. This should have been identified during that process and the VW design and quality engineers missed this one.

I have just had a lengthy Chat with VW CARE and they seemed to take my complaint very seriously and appreciated my reporting this issue:

02:08:00 Ben R says:
Okay, thanks for your patience. I will be happy to have this experience and feedback documented as well as our conversation attached to your customer profile.

02:08:02 Ben R says:
However, I regret that there is not an additional point of contact at this time. We are constantly reviewing and researching our vehicle designs with NHTSA directly. You are more than welcome to report that as well, as those details do help us in future designs and changes. If you would like, I'd be happy to look up the contact information for NHTSA.

02:11:37 Ben R says:
I understand, If any kind of campaign for your vehicle is released as the result of our research with NHTSA, we would reach out and notify you of the next steps. However, at this time, we wouldn't have additional follow up to offer.

02:15:19 Ben R says:
I can understand where you are you coming from Steve and we do appreciate the feedback. I will be sure to note that part as well within the case notes, as that insight does get reported to contacts within VW, as well as NHTSA.

02:17:40 Ben R says:
I do wish that we had more information to provide at this time but please do know that your concerns will documented and reviewed internally. Safety is certainly an important factor when reviewing details on current and future models.

02:20:51 Ben R says:
That information is certainly helpful to us in our reviewing. Please allow for a few minutes for the email to arrive.

02:18:14 Steve Brunell on http://www.vw.com says:
I am going to velcro a rigid plastic button I will buy at a hardware store over the START ENGINE STOP button in the meantime for my own safety.

Click to expand...

You might get lucky and VW Customer Care will do something for you. More likely, they'll tell you want you want to hear while they string you along and wear you out.

Here is my design solution to physically lockout the START ENGINE STOP button from any personal user error accidental depression when intending to change MODE while driving.

I've found other threads in this forum where several people have had this happen as well particularly early in vehicle ownership/lease possession.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/norcalsteveb/29386446363/in/album-72157674464820326/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/norcalsteveb/29979087746/in/album-72157674464820326/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/norcalsteveb/29386446683/in/album-72157674464820326/

FirstEV4me said:

I just got my eGolf and after 5 days have done this twice. This is a safety problem requiring a Software update to lockout the START ENGINE STOP button while the car is in Drive or B.

I found this thread and joined MYVWeGolf after posting over at VW Vortex last night so am not the only one to do this.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8213066-Danger-Warning-Do-Not-Press-START-ENGINE-STOP-Button-Instead-Of-MODE

Here is my email just sent to the dealership that I just leased the car from:

Who should I contact either at your dealer service department to discuss the following issue or VW of America?

The problem is that in 5 days of having the car have done the following twice:

1. While driving, fortunately once prior to making a left turn and less fortunately last night in the middle of an intersection, I accidently pressed the START ENGINE STOP button instead of the MODE button.

This kills the car and is extremely dangerous since comes to a complete halt. There was no accident in either incident but scared me.

Click to expand...

Pages 225 and 226 in my 2015 SEL owners manual refer to it as "Driving Profiles" that the "Mode" button controls.

As I have said so many times before.... RTFM

Top of page 226, in orange, first bullet



"Never attempt to change the driving mode while the vehicle is moving"

Don't go crying to NHTSA when you won't RTFM... clearly, it is operator error. Your error, so own it. Maybe RTFM a couple of times too, Chicken Little

FirstEV4me said:

Here is my design solution to physically lockout the START ENGINE STOP button from any personal user error accidental depression when intending to change MODE while driving.

Click to expand...

What baffles me is that placing the two buttons so close together is such an obvious design flaw with such a simple solution (move one button or the other farther away).

I'd prefer the ignition button to be on the dash in a more standard location, but failing that it would have been such a small change to move the eco button to the bottom of the gear shift lever instead of having it at the top right next to the power button.

JoulesThief said:

kirby said:

I just did this today. I typically drive around city streets in Eco mode, so I usually hit "mode" twice after the car "boots up". This morning, I forgot to switch modes until I had pulled out of a parking lot and was on the road approaching a stoplight. This is the first time I did it without looking and of course I got it wrong. I hit "on/off" two times quickly (within maybe 1/4-1/2 second) which is what I do to get into Eco and the car shut off right away. I knew what I had done right when it happened, so I got things going again quickly without incident.

Really poor user interface. It's really too easy to do. Maybe there's a software fix? Requiring a 1sec delay between initial "off" press and second "off" press might solve the blind accidental push most of the time. Of course, I need to be more careful too.

Click to expand...

Maybe take the time and LOOK at what you are doing, before you press the button. You need to hold yourself accountable for your errors and actions. Make the mistake once, and you should learn, and never repeat it again.

Click to expand...

Don't go crying to NHTSA when you won't RTFM... clearly, it is operator error. Your error, so own it. Maybe RTFM a couple of times too, Chicken Little

Click to expand...

JoulesThief: I want to take the high road with you since you already wrote RTFM on 10/28/15 and yet you continue to post to the same thread but think I now understand how one can possibly have 1274 posts on a single forum, as far as I can tell you must be the eGolf guru in your own mind who is all knowing. Unfortunately for you, your posts are not serving you well and show a lack of concern for other human beings that could actually die or be injured due to this design flaw. Your posts will be read by NHTSA and VW can guarantee you since they have links to this thread so take that into account for what it is worth.

I quoted your very early post about RTFM but want you to consider the other scenarios you may not have considered in your last insult to me:

What if your wife/girlfriend/friend/child/parent/relative/coworker borrows the car that HAS NOT RTFM as you so eloquently have stated repeatedly, and then gets low on range for some reason and since you told them to switch to ECO mode if low on charge perhaps realizes they need to get into ECO mode quickly after stopping for some groceries and since was in NORMAL mode before thinks they should change MODE quickly after starting since they forgot? This is just an example of possible Human Error that could cause an accident that you don't seem to give a flying tart about which is unbelievable to me since am trying to be helpful to both VW/Audi/Porsche as a brand as well as to get this problem fixed so someone doesn't get hurt or worse.

I'm not trying to decrease your eGolf value if you are an owner and in fact the opposite since may buy mine when it comes off lease if there is a battery upgrade available as just announced today apparently for the 2017 models with 186 miles range, but I digress.

Since you like to reference German engineers, well I love them too and I'm not trying to hurt VW but instead help since got my drivers license in my parents 77 Scirocco, 1st car 78 Rabbit, 2nd car 89 Jetta GLI which was converted to full blown track/race car (sold and probably in Mexico as a Rally car last I heard), 3rd car 86 Porsche 944 (backed into by an idiotic housewife in a giant SUV in a parking lot), 4th car 01 Audi S4 (sadly sold last month), 5th car 03 Porsche 911 C4S (my +80 miles range car), and now 6th car in the VW family is this 16 VW eGolf leased last weekend.

Joules - Take a chill pill and don't duplicate your same responses to the same thread might be a little word of wisdom since we can read if we are interested in a subject and I only got on this thread since was started by Gudy on 10/23/15, then the same thing happened to NeilBlanchards wife posted 10/28/15, then sodakar on 12/15/15, and Kirby on 1/14/16.

If you have any knowledge of statistics and probability, think about with production numbers of say 5000 eGolfs sold domestically but have no idea exactly, consider most people don't register and post on car forums let alone would admit to an obvious user error, if 5 people including myself and one at VW Vortex have reported this happen which is only 0.1%, you could hypothetically estimate that as many as 1 to 5% of all eGolf drivers might have done this and never posted to a forum or this thread in particular.

Something like 30000 people die each year in accidents in a US population of 300 Million plus. That is .01% annually. If even 1% of eGolf owners have done this so far with no incident as far as we know then it is only a matter of time that say 1 in 5000 of the current cars with this problem will die or be injured in a couple years.

Think about it and be a better human being is my only word of wisdom.

The onus is on you, if you lend your equipment out, that who you loan it to is competent, that you check test and observe it. They too should read the Owner's or Operator's manual. Why don't you lend a gun out too? Seriously, show some accountability.

Let's transfer logic on a California law on guns to cars.

If someone gets a hold of your gun and injures or kills someone with it, because it wasn't locked up in a safe, you are liable. It's no different with a car, and cars kill far more people in the USA than guns do. You have an obligation to not lend your car out to people who are not properly trained and proficient in operating EVERYTHING in your car, if you insist on lending it out to them.

We shouldn't have car insurance, we should have insurance on people that drive cars, the driver. Cars are inanimate objects, they kill no one. Their operators do. Your insurance rates should apply to YOUR driving records. No fault insurance is the stupidest idea ever, there's no accountability.

Evidently, you don't seem to have any accountability either.

It's in the owners manual... read it, and adhere to it. Don't whine about it if you didn't read the instructions. Same with anyone else that drives your car, read the owners/operators manual first. Better yet, next time, ask the salesman at the dealership to show you how everything works before you drive off the lot in your leased car.

JoulesThief, that's a good one! The salesman knows. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! Most of the salesman couldn't tell you the difference between a J1772 plug and a water hose. Why can't you stop scolding people? Did your parents beat it into you as a child that you should RTFM? Did your parents RTFM on how to raise children? I think they didn't.