JuiceBox Green

Does anyone have the 'Green' version of the Juicebox 40? Was looking for some feedback.

acdcvw said:

Does anyone have the 'Green' version of the Juicebox 40? Was looking for some feedback.

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I got one. Works nicely. At the time it cost the same as the non-green. I don't know that it's worth paying extra for the Green version . I think you can use this model if you want to meter your electric car power usage separately, using the Watt Box submeter. I use the car's delayed charging feature, rather than the Juice Box's. It is wi-fi enabled, so you can see if the car is charging and the power going in, on your computer or Android phone.

normf3 said:

acdcvw said:

Does anyone have the 'Green' version of the Juicebox 40? Was looking for some feedback.

Click to expand...

I got one. Works nicely. At the time it cost the same as the non-green. I don't know that it's worth paying extra for the Green version . I think you can use this model if you want to meter your electric car power usage separately, using the Watt Box submeter. I use the car's delayed charging feature, rather than the Juice Box's. It is wi-fi enabled, so you can see if the car is charging and the power going in, on your computer or Android phone.

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Thanks for the reply. I'm going to not go with the green model. Seems to only have an effect if you allow it to control when it's charging but with my tiered rate plan I'll always only be charging after 11pm during the week so the effect is null.

FWIW, there is a "solution brief" on how the Green Juice Box works. I believe you set a charging period and Juice Box will pick out the "greenest" charging period. With the e-Golf and probably some other BEV's if you set the delayed charging from the charger, it won't charge, as the connection goes to sleep if it doesn't sense any voltage coming in. You need to use the car's delayed charging. [But surely they took this into account] Perhaps I need to read up. I do charge from 11:30pm to 5:30am on weekdays as well. It only takes a couple of hours to charge up for me, as I don't run it down that much.

http://www.emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/1605-juicebox-green-40-emissions-optimized-40-amp-evse-with-24-foot-cable

I have a Juicebox 40 with the wifi. Hardware wise it is the same as the green.

The timer built into the Juicebox 40 will not work with the eGolf. The car will be asleep when the TOU (Time of Use) activates on the Juicebox. Trust me, I have methodically tried every possible combination of steps and setups to get the TOU timer to work. It will not with the eGolf.

The only way to do a timed charge is through the built in departure time charging in the eGolf. I turn off the TOU function in the Juicebox. The eGolf departure time charging is reliable with the car being charged to 80% (my setting) by 7am each morning.

Bottom line with the eGolf only the car decides when it will charge, not the charger.

Stretch2727 - Is that the case with your B-Class Electric as well?

I wrote EMotorworks about the Juicebox Green delayed charging and they responded promptly. Yeah, looks like VW will have to upgrade their software to let an external device control the delayed charging. Wonder if they'll ever enable that?

EMotorwerks response:

"The VW has a sleeping issue, and we have seen this come up a few times. Here is a note from one of our software engineers...
"It may be a good idea to stop by the VW dealer and talk with them about a firmware update for the car's onboard charger. On the technical side, which you can pass along to the technicians:
Ensure that their J1772 implementation properly handles "State B1" - which is considered "EVSE not ready to supply energy" mode. Official J1772 spec states that there is "no max" time limit for holding at State B1, but some manufacturers (Fiat, most notoriously) have broken this spec such that the car "goes to sleep" after a couple minutes waiting to start charging, and doesn't resume when B2 (EVSE Ready) is activated. That ends up breaking the EVSE-side time-of-use abilities - not just the JuiceBox, but any time charging isn't immediately allowed, like at a public charging station if you take a few minutes between plugging-in and authenticating at the charger, you'd probably see the same behavior.
Hopefully VW can come up with a fix for that. We're still trying to find a way to work-around the issue without breaking the spec for other cars (most of which work fine right now). Let us know if you find anything from VW! "

normf3 said:

Stretch2727 - Is that the case with your B-Class Electric as well?

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Unfortunately the B- class is the complete the opposite. The car has no delayed or timed charging. Nothing, Nada zilch. It is a bit of a pain as I need to alternate between the TOU set up on the Juicebox to charge the MB and and turn it off completely to delay charge the eGolf. I have a good routine and each car gets charged every other day on the weekdays. Our commutes only use about 20 miles each day. On weekends it just depends which car we use for longer trips. I have a TOU electric meter which lowers my electric rate at night to less than 1/2 the peak rate. Weekends we can charge anytime at the lower rate.

One other side note...I have been following the Frankfurt show and how the German makers are now going to compete with Tesla. The MB app for seeing the car charging status just plain does not work and no possibility for delayed charging. I use an app develop by a MB B-class electric owner that works perfectly against the MB database for charging status! The VW app is better but still so so. Juicebox has told me the eGolf does not meet the J1772 standard with its sleep mode. (same per the post above, and I have had all the TSB's and firmware applied.) How can they be serious about competing when they can't even do correct charging and smart phone apps that work correctly on their current cars.

I like the cars themselves but these are just stepping stones for me to a Tesla Model 3. They need to get more serious about all the details if they are going to keep and win more EV customers.

Wow, a premium brand like MB doesn't even have DC charging or delayed charging or an app that works?? I guess they just threw something together while they're working on the next big thing. The MB is supposed to have a "Tesla drivetrain", but I guess that's all.

Curious that the ChargePoint Home can do delayed charging: http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=492

It may not be up to spec, by my opinion is an EVSE should just handle what it's intended to handle. The delayed charging and profiles, monitoring, etc. should be handled in the car. Except for the MB, you're paying a lot for that functionality and there's no reason to have to depend on the EVSE. Less things to go wrong.

normf3 said:

EMotorwerks response:

"The VW has a sleeping issue, and we have seen this come up a few times. Here is a note from one of our software engineers...
"It may be a good idea to stop by the VW dealer and talk with them about a firmware update for the car's onboard charger. On the technical side, which you can pass along to the technicians:
Ensure that their J1772 implementation properly handles "State B1" - which is considered "EVSE not ready to supply energy" mode. Official J1772 spec states that there is "no max" time limit for holding at State B1, but some manufacturers (Fiat, most notoriously) have broken this spec such that the car "goes to sleep" after a couple minutes waiting to start charging, and doesn't resume when B2 (EVSE Ready) is activated. That ends up breaking the EVSE-side time-of-use abilities - not just the JuiceBox, but any time charging isn't immediately allowed, like at a public charging station if you take a few minutes between plugging-in and authenticating at the charger, you'd probably see the same behavior.
Hopefully VW can come up with a fix for that. We're still trying to find a way to work-around the issue without breaking the spec for other cars (most of which work fine right now). Let us know if you find anything from VW! "

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They're absolutely right. Their response mirrors my observations perfectly. This has a big impact for me when using the sequential mode of the Hydra. When it's the eGolf's turn, it sleeps right on through (with the plug locked in place, no less).

The only conceivable workaround would be to send a 6 amp pilot - the minimum amount allowed by the spec. At 240 VAC, that's 1.44 kW. In principle (I've not tried it), the eGolf would "charge" at that rate and that would keep it awake. Then when the ToU time elapses, you could crank the pilot up to the actual charge rate and it would work.

Meanwhile, you'd be using 1.44 kW of energy at the wrong time as a workaround.

The only EVSE workaround that I've thought of is to use a J1772 cable with extra wires in the cable like the one from Quick Charge Power so you can open and then re-close the presence pin. That should wake up the car and allow it to start charging when the EVSE wants it to. However, this is only practical for someone building their own EVSE.

I really do wonder what they did in the ChargePoint Home unit that makes it work.

I can foresee that not working for the eGolf. In principle, because the eGolf locks in the plug, it's conceivable that they could get away with completely ignoring the proximity pin.

nsayer said:

I can foresee that not working for the eGolf. In principle, because the eGolf locks in the plug, it's conceivable that they could get away with completely ignoring the proximity pin.

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Wait, does yours lock the plug in?

The 2016 SE model does not (or at least mine does not).

I know for JuiceBox 40 amp, it's recommended to put a 50amp breaker. Is it safe to hook up to a 60 amp breaker?

Thanks
Jamiee

write2warriors said:

I know for JuiceBox 40 amp, it's recommended to put a 50amp breaker. Is it safe to hook up to a 60 amp breaker?

Thanks
Jamiee

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The 40A box on a 50A breaker is because of the 80% derating required for continuous usage. IIRC, "continuous" usage is any load of at least 2-3 hours, like charging a car. However, for a 40A JuiceBox, you don't want just 50A (or 60A) breaker, you want a 50A circuit from breaker to wall socket.

Upgrading just the breaker is dangerous and not up to code. If you're putting in a 60A breaker, you really should have a a 60A circuit from breaker to socket. 60A breaker, #6 or #4 cable (depending on the type of cable used) from the breaker to the socket, and a 60A wall socket like a NEMA 14-60R. With all this in place, you could safely use up to 48A continuously for (80% derating for continuous usage, 80% of 60A is 48A).

If the cable and socket are only rated for 50A but the breaker is 60A, a greater than 50A load could damage the cable or socket before the breaker trips. That "damage" could be a fire in your wall. However, if you do have a 60A circuit (breaker, cable, socket), you're still ok plugging in something that doesn't use 48A or 60A. People do this all the time to "future proof" their installation.

bizzle said:

Wait, does yours lock the plug in?

The 2016 SE model does not (or at least mine does not).

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Yeah. It's annoying as hell. There's a whole thread about it.

nsayer said:

bizzle said:

Wait, does yours lock the plug in?

The 2016 SE model does not (or at least mine does not).

Click to expand...

Yeah. It's annoying as hell. There's a whole thread about it.

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I am beginning to wonder if this is just supposed to be an SAE combo feature only, and not a J-1772 feature? Someone with a 2016 SE with the QC charger combo feature upgrade needs to verify this for us? Or at least go visit a dealership and test demonstrate a J-1772 charger connect /disconnect cycle to verify? Do Audi A3 e-trons exhibit the same behavior, I wonder? No SAE combo plug on them, I suppose.

JoulesThief said:

nsayer said:

bizzle said:

Wait, does yours lock the plug in?

The 2016 SE model does not (or at least mine does not).

Click to expand...

Yeah. It's annoying as hell. There's a whole thread about it.

Click to expand...

I am beginning to wonder if this is just supposed to be an SAE combo feature only, and not a J-1772 feature? Someone with a 2016 SE with the QC charger combo feature upgrade needs to verify this for us? Or at least go visit a dealership and test demonstrate a J-1772 charger connect /disconnect cycle to verify? Do Audi A3 e-trons exhibit the same behavior, I wonder? No SAE combo plug on them, I suppose.

Click to expand...

My 2016 SE with DCP does indeed lock in the plug...