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 Post subject: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:39 pm
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I am new to this eGolf forum, but a 3 years Tesla Mode S owner. I'm considering an eGolf for my wife until Tesla Model 3 comes out. I am a guy who buys, never leases. Reasons being my wife and daughter trash the interior and she'll likely put over 15k miles per year. Also, the eGolf would likely go to my daughter when she hits 16. For these reasons I would be a buyer, not a leaser. So, battery longevity matters. The Leaf battery has longevity issues but only costs $5500 to replace. A VW battery is likely to be much more expensive. My son has a VW TDI, so we are already annoyed, pissed, and lack trust VW, yet that eGolf really drives nicely.

I am not finding any other threads on this subject. Those of you with some months and miles on the eGolf, have you noticed any decrease in range?

Thx, Gene

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2013 Tesla Model S, 70,000 miles of a wonderful experience. Currently shopping EV's to replace son's spewing TDI.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:49 am
Posts: 91
Location: PNW, 2015 eGolf SEL
I'd be curious about how many miles eGolfs have been accruing. I've only put 7.5k on mine in 10 months, with no noticeable capacity loss, and wouldn't expect any just yet. I'm sure others have gone a lot further... maybe a mileage vs. battery capacity thread?

The annual/10k service may produce a battery status report, that would be good info to post.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:20 am 
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VW warranties to 8 years and 100,000 miles on the battery, guaranteeing at least 70% capacity. It's a little early to tell about loss of capacity, there aren't a lot of high mileage e-Golfs out there yet.

The e-Golf drives way nicer than the Leaf, fit and finish are much nicer too, in the SEL trim. Replacement cost on the battery remains to be seen, but knowing VW, it won't be a cheap fix, VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.

I rolled the dice, and bought mine also. 1500 miles in 7 weeks, too soon to tell. What I do feel will be telling is how much and how often folks use accessories that tear up the battery life, like the A/C and heater. The creature comforts take a big hit on the battery life. Don't use them and the battery will last a LOT longer. Use them relentlessly, and it won't last nearly as long. The women I've known don't give much thought to these things, well, unless they are electrical engineers too.

Have a female friend that left her water bottle lid open in the passenger seat of her new TDI and roasted the electric heater in the seat... expected VW to cover it under warranty, for her stupidity. VW dealerships don't tolerate warranty work like that, there's an unwritten stupidity clause in the ownership agreement. Same with folks that pump gasoline into their TDI diesel fuel tanks, misfuel, and try to blame it on VW. It happens more often than you think. There's a general lack of accountability out there now with some car owners.

One thing that I can guarantee with VW and Audi product is this... If you slam your doors shut, even moderately, sooner or later you will wreck the electrical switches inside the door lock, and crack the soldering on the circuit board, and have all kinds of alarm problems and locking problems down the line. So no matter how rushed, how late, or how mad you are, NEVER slam the doors shut on a VW, it wrecks the electronics in the door locks, from all the jarring.

Grab the door by the door handle, and 6 inches from being fully closed, give it a firm push, just enough to engage fully the door lock latches and overcome the resistance of the rubber door seals to get it to lock shut. Teach you family this technique, demand that they use it all the time on VW product. You'll thank me later.

Personally, if driving over 15k miles a year, get the wife a TDI instead, when they go back on sale. That's a lot of miles and charging time for an electric car with a battery, sitting there tethered to an outlet. VW recommends using the level 3 charging system sparingly, their batteries really are designed for slow, level 2 charging. Fast charging is hard on battery life of Li cells, just look at how long the batteries last on your smart phone being quick charged. It's ok in a smart phone, batteries are cheap... not so in an e-Golf. The local dealership to me, Neftin, replaced a battery pack in a 2015 golf that had failed. I asked for what it cost to replace in the service department, and all said and done, VW was sent a bill for $17,000 to replace it. True story, that was what I was told. A specialist team of 3 guys is sent around, per diem, to do the job.

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2015 e-Golf SEL


Last edited by JoulesThief on Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:36 am 
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JoulesThief wrote:
VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.
Amen to that!


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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:39 pm
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JoulesThief wrote:
VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.


Just what I was afraid of, owning an EV with no idea what the battery might cost some day. Well, after plenty of lousy experiences with VW, and now an owner of the offending TDI, add to that your words reminding me just what a bummer VW is to deal with, maybe I should just look at a Leaf or Spark, damn, I wish the Model 3 was now available. My experience with the incredible service and buying experience with Tesla has spoiled me for life. A few months ago, I took the TDI in for some warranty issue, OMG, what a nightmare. I had bought the extended warranty from this very dealer. They told me they lost my paperwork and as far as they were concerned, I had no warranty. What an argument ensued, finally I prevailed when I returned with email proof of the purchase.. But you know what I just don't need that kind of service anymore. Thank you for your input. My wife now has a Prius, I've driven the Leaf and Spark, they may not drive as well as the eGolf, but they are certainly as nice or better than the Prius. The local Nissan and Chevy dealers aren't too bad (fingers crossed).

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2013 Tesla Model S, 70,000 miles of a wonderful experience. Currently shopping EV's to replace son's spewing TDI.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:51 am 
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JoulesThief wrote:
One thing that I can guarantee with VW and Audi product is this... If you slam your doors shut, even moderately, sooner or later you will wreck the electrical switches inside the door lock, and crack the soldering on the circuit board, and have all kinds of alarm problems and locking problems down the line. So no matter how rushed, how late, or how mad you are, NEVER slam the doors shut on a VW, it wrecks the electronics in the door locks, from all the jarring.

Grab the door by the door handle, and 6 inches from being fully closed, give it a firm push, just enough to engage fully the door lock latches and overcome the resistance of the rubber door seals to get it to lock shut. Teach you family this technique, demand that they use it all the time on VW product. You'll thank me later.


This above is hilarious. Reminds me of a VW Quantum my dad had. All the door switches went bad, the ignition switch broke, all of this within 25k miles. I replaced all these switches with heavy duty toggle switches. My dad has never given a hoot what his car looks like. Even the ignition switch I replaced with a momentary on/full on rotary switch. No key was required to drive that car! It lasted about 150,000 miles in this condition. Man that thing rattled like crazy. I did have to replace the CV joints about 4 times. There were plenty of other things we jerry rigged. It became a hobby to see how silly we could repair that car, no matter what it looked like.

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2013 Tesla Model S, 70,000 miles of a wonderful experience. Currently shopping EV's to replace son's spewing TDI.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
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gene wrote:
JoulesThief wrote:
VW's business model has been to make a ton of money for dealerships on recurring spare parts fixes and expenses. Long, long, long time TDI owner here, been there, done that. You will pay a premium for the german driving experience, in the form of parts replacements, as things break, and they will break.


Just what I was afraid of, owning an EV with no idea what the battery might cost some day. Well, after plenty of lousy experiences with VW, and now an owner of the offending TDI, add to that your words reminding me just what a bummer VW is to deal with, maybe I should just look at a Leaf or Spark, damn, I wish the Model 3 was now available. My experience with the incredible service and buying experience with Tesla has spoiled me for life. A few months ago, I took the TDI in for some warranty issue, OMG, what a nightmare. I had bought the extended warranty from this very dealer. They told me they lost my paperwork and as far as they were concerned, I had no warranty. What an argument ensued, finally I prevailed when I returned with email proof of the purchase.. But you know what I just don't need that kind of service anymore. Thank you for your input. My wife now has a Prius, I've driven the Leaf and Spark, they may not drive as well as the eGolf, but they are certainly as nice or better than the Prius. The local Nissan and Chevy dealers aren't too bad (fingers crossed).


Neftin VW quoted me $17,000. That's what they billed VW for a replacement on a 2015 SEL with 6000 miles on the battery pack when it failed and had to be R&R'd. They'd done one recently when I asked. YMMV, I'd ask your local VW dealership service department on the price to R&R a battery pack out of warranty.

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2015 e-Golf SEL


Last edited by JoulesThief on Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:18 pm
Posts: 440
Why would using the radio, heater, air conditioning, defroster,etc. "tear up the battery"? Aren't the accessories powered by the 12V battery?

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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
Posts: 2329
f1geek wrote:
Why would using the radio, heater, air conditioning, defroster,etc. "tear up the battery"? Aren't the accessories powered by the 12V battery?


I'll defer, and let Miura answer your question. High power items use high voltage.

Better yet, go down to your VW dealership and test drive an e-Golf, and flip on all those accessories with ignition on, ready to drive, and watch what happens to your range as it shrinks in the infotainment center before your very eyes. Tweek the AC temps down, and then tweek the heater temps up, without driving, and watch the numbers of range change significantly. That's the added load on your high voltage battery. None of those accessories runs for free.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you experienced battery degradation?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
Posts: 2329
gene wrote:
JoulesThief wrote:
One thing that I can guarantee with VW and Audi product is this... If you slam your doors shut, even moderately, sooner or later you will wreck the electrical switches inside the door lock, and crack the soldering on the circuit board, and have all kinds of alarm problems and locking problems down the line. So no matter how rushed, how late, or how mad you are, NEVER slam the doors shut on a VW, it wrecks the electronics in the door locks, from all the jarring.

Grab the door by the door handle, and 6 inches from being fully closed, give it a firm push, just enough to engage fully the door lock latches and overcome the resistance of the rubber door seals to get it to lock shut. Teach you family this technique, demand that they use it all the time on VW product. You'll thank me later.


This above is hilarious. Reminds me of a VW Quantum my dad had. All the door switches went bad, the ignition switch broke, all of this within 25k miles. I replaced all these switches with heavy duty toggle switches. My dad has never given a hoot what his car looks like. Even the ignition switch I replaced with a momentary on/full on rotary switch. No key was required to drive that car! It lasted about 150,000 miles in this condition. Man that thing rattled like crazy. I did have to replace the CV joints about 4 times. There were plenty of other things we jerry rigged. It became a hobby to see how silly we could repair that car, no matter what it looked like.


My point is this: Treat a german car like an expensive german fine instrument, and it will last a very, very long time. Treat it like an abused tool whose only purpose is to make you money by working it harder, faster, and you'll pay dearly for that increased productivity, it becomes a throw away car in short order.

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