Is a 2015 Limited right for me?

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AEF

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Mar 5, 2016
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So I'm looking at a used 2015 limited edition e-golf. I've never owned or considered an electric car before, so this is all pretty overwhelming for me and I was hoping you guys may be able to see any red flags or potential issues that I haven't considered.

So, I'd need the car to be a daily commuter for my new job. I have about 35 miles round trip on crowded SoCal highways, which is why I want an electric - for the HOV lane. As far as I can tell, my workplace-to-be does not have charging stations. Being in SoCal, there are public charging stations in my hometown, the town I'll be working in, and plenty in between. However, I do not have a 220 or 240 volt outlet in my house and will not be able to have one installed because I rent. This means I'll be limited to a standard 110v outlet. I have a second car, so I should be able to just plug it in when I get home and not worry about it.

So, I guess I'm confused on the whole home charging by 110v thing. From what I've read, it looks like it would take around 20 hours to get a 0% to 100% charge. Does this mean if I come home with say 50% left, I'll be able to get back to 100% within 10 hours? And do I need any additional devices installed on or around the outlet to use the 110v or does the car come with a standard plug adapter?

Any help you guys can provide would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Well, the good thing is that the 2015 Limited Edition comes with the DCQC connector and the 7.2 kwh charger pack, which means you can charge in 20-30 minutes via DC charge stations, and in about 3.5 hours at public stations. DC quick charging will run you $10 for adding 80 miles of range, pretty expensive per mile. Level 2 charging runs usually a minimum of $0.25 per kwh. If you average 4 miles a kwh, , that's about 6 cents per mile, in electricity. It will be more expensive, electricity, in the summer.

You will not get the $2500 state rebate. You will not get the $7500 credit to your federal income tax return, those were already taken by the original buyer.

I wouldn't pay over $12,000 for that car. Period. Why? Because I bought my brand new 2015 SEL for $15,200 after all my rebates and tax credits, before registration and sales tax, in October of 2015.

That you don't own where you live is going to put you at the mercy of public charging stations... which IMHO is a really bad idea and A WASTE OF YOUR TIME. Recharging your vehicle needs to be simple, and convenient. It is none of those things if you have no other choice but to use public charging resources... Then you get to deal with being ICE'd, Charger hogs, idiots that think a recharging station is a personal parking spot, etc, etc. You have to be able to charge at level 2 at home.

Until you own your own place, or the place you live has a Level 2 240V 30 amp HVSE in place, I'd pass on buying a BEV car, too big an inconvenience, and too limiting. Put political convictions aside, consider what your time is worth waiting around all the time to recharge publicly, and you'll find it's a poor proposition for your transportation needs currently.

HOV time savings are nothing compared to the time you will waste recharging all the time publicly, here in So CAL. Everyone has gotten HOV stickers, and the advantage of them no longer exists, the lane density of cars using them is over saturated, the advantage lost, due to too many users.
 
I believe the 2015 e-Golf LE has both 7.2kW AC charger on board (30 amp, 240 V) and DC Fast charging. Even if you always charge at 120V, 12 A it's nice to have the option to publicly charge at almost 7.2 kW (many stations will only get you around 6 kW) and also have the DC fast charge option if you need it (I have used it several times when I've driven 85+ miles to a destination and then wanted to drive at my destination).

At home, charging at 110/120V, 12 A your charge rate will be about 1.4kW. The e-Golf battery is 24.2 kWh, so if it were fully depleted, it would take 24.2/1.4=about 18 hours. FYI - the last kWh charging will take 25 minutes as those final electrons trickle in to the battery, regardless of charging speed. You can not actually access all 24.2 kWh - I believe that last 8% is reserved, so you should be able to discharge "fully" and would need to replenish 22.3 kWh (would take 16 hours). If you come home with 50% charge = 12 kWh to fill at 1.4kW then 12/1.4=9 hours (I added a bit for that last kWh). If you are unable to charge at 12amps, things will take longer. The 120 V amp rate can be adjusted in the Car-Net app but I always keep mine at 12 amps. The included 110V ("trickle") charging station (found in the trunk of your new car) will work just fine - I've used mine many times. VW recommends the 120V outlet is a GFI, but I've used both GFI and non-GFI outlets and both have been successful - The GFI affords more safety in an outdoor environment. Although VW recommends against using an extension cord with the included trickle charger, but if your extension cord is rated for at least 15 amps (should be orange in color for 15 amps, I believe), I don't see any issues. They don't recommend an extension cord because if you were to use a lamp type (brown) extension cord, you may start a fire.

I love my e-Golf and hope you love yours, too!
 
JT has a few good points, but I encourage everyone who has a reasonable commute and is willing to be a bit flexible to drive an EV. You can be sure you are always buying American fuel (maybe even fully renewable, like I do) and are not supporting the Saudis, Russians, and a lot of other regimes that we shouldn't be supporting with our dollars.

I agree that public EV stations should charge people for "fuel" but there are plenty where I live that are free - I just got a free 22kW DC charge from BMW and no one else was around, so I wasn't slowing anyone else down. My city also provides free L2 at libraries and public parking garages because it wants to encourage people to drive EVs to reduce our carbon footprint. As a taxpayer, I am ok with that. Besides, California is pushing for more EV drivers, so if free charging is part of that encouragement, so be it. At some point in the future I'm pretty sure the electrons won't be free anymore. Additionally, if you live in CA, Volta charging has a lot of free (paid by advertising) L2 charging stations at malls and other businesses that you could use. There are more and more charging stations popping up every day so you should check your local area to see what's available (use Plugshare).

Ideally, you should have a L2 (240V) station at your home, but it sounds like you are willing to make do with 120 V charging. I think you should get the e-Golf if it makes sense financially, or even if it doesn't because it's such a fun car to drive. Do Aston Martins or Ferrari's make financial sense? Or even Minis?
 
I lived with L1-only charging for 9 months. For short commutes it's doable; however 35 miles per day, every day, may be too much for relying solely on L1 at home, especially at freeway speeds (my commute allows me to take city streets for not much more time than a using freeway), and/or if your commute takes you over hilly terrain like Sepulveda Pass or Newhall Pass. IMHO if your one-way commute in either direction is expected to use more than 40% of the battery, you need L2 charging at home or work, preferably at home.

If you can plug in to a 120 volt outlet at work, that would be better, but make sure to get WRITTEN permission for doing so. Last thing you want at a new job is getting reprimanded (or worse) for "stealing" the company electricity. Your new co-workers will be the most likely ones to snitch you off to the boss.
 
Isn't there a way to combine 2 110v power sources to get the 220v he needs. Granted it has to be on 2 separate breakers, but its an option.


Actually that probably isn't a very good idea!
 
Scottyfofo said:
Isn't there a way to combine 2 110v power sources to get the 220v he needs. Granted it has to be on 2 separate breakers, but its an option.


Actually that probably isn't a very good idea!

Ask an electrical contractor, but yes, you pull 2 hot legs from the main panel, and a neutral, and a ground, off of a 50 or 40 amp dual pole circuit breaker. Each leg to neutral is 120V. Each leg to each leg, single phase, is 240V. Run it on a dedicated circuit to a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Plug in a 30 amp 240V capable EVSE unit. Adds $700 to $2000 or more as an upgrade to your home, and to it's basis value, when you sell your home. And now you can recharge at a 7.2kwh rate to the charge controller on the vehicle, not 1.2kwh like with 120V.
 
I would carefully weigh the 2015 LE vs. a 2016 SE, since they will in the same pricing ballpark.

https://spaces.hightail.com/space/yZm8Z

In short, a 2016 SE would give you a nicer screen with CarPlay / AndroidAuto, but would lose built-in navigation, parking sensors, and the upgraded charger. Only you can decide which is more important.

Regarding charging at home on 110v: the rule of thumb is 4 miles range for every hour plugged in, so you'll recover that 35 miles burn with a 9 hour overnight charge. This is the case regardless of charger size, because the bottleneck will be the 12 amps coming from the circuit.

So the 7.2 kW charger on the 2015 really only comes in to play if you need to use an L2 charger, or a DC fast charger. If you're talking strictly a commuter car that doesn't exceed 40 miles in one day, these advantages may not matter.
 
If you ever have to use public charging, you'll be glad you bought the 7.2 kwh charger instead of the 3.6kwh on a 2016 SE model. That's because you usually only get 200 to 208V at 30 amps.... that's about a 3.0-3.1kwh charge rate, which is not even 3x faster than your 120V charger at home... dead slow. When you aren't at home, and you need a charge, you need it now. Find locations where the output is 240V instead of 208V if time is important in recharging.

If you don't have the time, consider a new ICE powered car instead.
 
Let's not confuse people. 200 V x 30A = 6kW charge rate . 208 V x 30A = 6.2 kW charge rate . 240V x 30A = 7.2kW charge rate . 115V x 12A = 1.4 kW charge rate. Public stations are usually 208 V so 6.2kW/1.4kW=4.4 times faster than charging at 115 V at 12A at home. If you are stuck with a 3.6kW on board charger (like on the 2016 SE e-Golf), it doesn't matter if the station can deliver 6.2 kW - you are only going to get 3.6 kW delivered to the battery (because the power input is controlled by the on board charger) which is 3.6/1.4=2.6 times faster than "trickle" charging at 115 V.

Batteries are rated in kWh, a unit of energy. Charging stations are rated in kW, a unit of power. Power x time = energy. kW x hr = kWh.

I agree trickle charging at 1.4kW is painfully slow, but if you are committed, you can do it. It's up to you.
 
L1 charging is only "painfully" slow if you stand there staring at it. Unless you have specific windows when electricity is less expensive, the car is plugged in during the evening and charged until the morning. If your commute is less than 40 miles round trip then the faster charger capabilities of the LE and SEL models likely won't amount to much use. The larger problem with this situation is the 35 miles on the freeway. At freeway speeds the car doesn't get 1:1 mileage. If your commutes have you driving in traffic and you're below 60 miles per hour, then it might work. Otherwise, that 35 mile commute is likely to take 50+ miles off your range.
 
f1geek said:
Let's not confuse people. 200 V x 30A = 6kW charge rate . 208 V x 30A = 6.2 kW charge rate . 240V x 30A = 7.2kW charge rate . 115V x 12A = 1.4 kW charge rate. Public stations are usually 208 V so 6.2kW/1.4kW=4.4 times faster than charging at 115 V at 12A at home. If you are stuck with a 3.6kW on board charger (like on the 2016 SE e-Golf), it doesn't matter if the station can deliver 6.2 kW - you are only going to get 3.6 kW delivered to the battery (because the power input is controlled by the on board charger) which is 3.6/1.4=2.6 times faster than "trickle" charging at 115 V.

Batteries are rated in kWh, a unit of energy. Charging stations are rated in kW, a unit of power. Power x time = energy. kW x hr = kWh.

I agree trickle charging at 1.4kW is painfully slow, but if you are committed, you can do it. It's up to you.

You are not accounting for other losses while recharging. With you 3.6 kwh charger on board, you get 15 amps. Period. Multiply that by the actual voltage provided at the EVSE, most of which I've measured come out at 200-203 or 204V if you are lucky, because they are far from the main panel. If I am lucky, at home, I see 243-244V, late at night. In a townhouse complex, make it a hot day, people fire up their AC units, (not us), and my voltage will drop to 237-238. We had a couple of 90F days to see that, already in February this year.

By the time it goes through your charge controller, it's common to lose another 8 to 10% in the conversion to DC and going through the transformer, which also generates heat.

All those losses add up, by the time it goes into your battery.

It's fine to be committed, it's another to have to be somewhere, and you are stuck recharging instead, because the drive, the conditions, whatever, took too much out of your battery for you to get where you need to be without recharging. Then a 3.6kwh battery pack is a drag, and a waste of time. Your time, if you have to wait while it recharges. Been there, done that. I am used to go fueling up with diesel, add 16 to 22-23 gallons of diesel in under 5 minutes, and I won't have to spend any time refueling for another 740 -800 miles, if I so choose. So battery recharging, if I can't do it overnight, at home, is a huge time suck. Being a contractor, wasting time is wasting money.
 
JoulesThief said:
It's fine to be committed, it's another to have to be somewhere, and you are stuck recharging instead, because the drive, the conditions, whatever, took too much out of your battery for you to get where you need to be without recharging. Then a 3.6kwh battery pack is a drag, and a waste of time. Your time, if you have to wait while it recharges. Been there, done that. I am used to go fueling up with diesel, add 16 to 22-23 gallons of diesel in under 5 minutes, and I won't have to spend any time refueling for another 740 -800 miles, if I so choose. So battery recharging, if I can't do it overnight, at home, is a huge time suck. Being a contractor, wasting time is wasting money.
Sorry to point out your mistake above, but "3.6kwh battery pack" is not right. Only the base 2016 SE has the 3.6kW on-board charger and lacks the fast charger inlet. In that situation, if you have to be somewhere and you have to wait at a J1772 public charger to get where you're going it's a real drag.

However, the original poster was talking about 2015 Limited Edition, which has both 7.2kW AC on-board charger and the SAE Combo DC Fast Charge capability.
 
bizzle said:
The larger problem with this situation is the 35 miles on the freeway...that 35 mile commute is likely to take 50+ miles off your range.

Good point. I still think worst-case, you can recover that in under 12 hours on a regular 110v plug
 
miimura said:
JoulesThief said:
It's fine to be committed, it's another to have to be somewhere, and you are stuck recharging instead, because the drive, the conditions, whatever, took too much out of your battery for you to get where you need to be without recharging. Then a 3.6kwh battery pack is a drag, and a waste of time. Your time, if you have to wait while it recharges. Been there, done that. I am used to go fueling up with diesel, add 16 to 22-23 gallons of diesel in under 5 minutes, and I won't have to spend any time refueling for another 740 -800 miles, if I so choose. So battery recharging, if I can't do it overnight, at home, is a huge time suck. Being a contractor, wasting time is wasting money.
Sorry to point out your mistake above, but "3.6kwh battery pack" is not right. Only the base 2016 SE has the 3.6kW on-board charger and lacks the fast charger inlet. In that situation, if you have to be somewhere and you have to wait at a J1772 public charger to get where you're going it's a real drag.

However, the original poster was talking about 2015 Limited Edition, which has both 7.2kW AC on-board charger and the SAE Combo DC Fast Charge capability.

Understood, he is considering buying a used 2015 LE. No heat pump, no LED's, no Mag rims, no GPS. Someone else took the $10,000 in fed and state rebates/credits. That needs to be reflected in the price paid used. With rebates, I paid $15,200 for a new SEL 2015. His is used..... someone else took the rebates and tax credits... So what is a lesser model worth used, a 2015? Not much. If a 2016 SE is also a consideration, then the 3.6 kwh charger pack needs to be considered n the mix, or EVSE's that only charge at 3.2 kwh, which there are some around here, not a lot, but they are out there. I've only found them after paying to charge for a couple of hours, by the hour, and the amount added was pretty sad, not a good value. Now I check my Carnet app after plugging in to check the amount of time it takes to fully charge.

Lately, I've spent more time trying to find and add, to PlugShare, NEMA 14-50 outlets at obscure RV camping sites that will allow us to plug in our own EVSE's, if we are not close to existing infrastructure. To me, charging at 240V is preferred. Olancha RV park and Pyramid RV park have already been added.
 
johnnylingo said:
bizzle said:
The larger problem with this situation is the 35 miles on the freeway...that 35 mile commute is likely to take 50+ miles off your range.

Good point. I still think worst-case, you can recover that in under 12 hours on a regular 110v plug
I really dislike talking about charging in miles/hour. Let's do the calculation a different way - Percent full charge per hour.

120VAC * 12A * 85% = 1.224kW into the battery
1.224kW / 22kWh = 5.56 %/hr

1/0.0556 = 18 hours for a full charge.

So, if you run down the battery so the small battery gauge is pointing straight up (50%), then it will take 50/5.56=9 hours to recharge back to full. Your driving efficiency, and therefore the displayed range in miles, doesn't enter into this equation at all. As it should be, IMHO.
 
Obviously the range on the dash is simply a reference point to have a discussion in terms everyone can understand. The person asking the question said his main purpose was to drive in a Southern Californian HOV lane for 35 miles round trip.

We don't even know if that's just his freeway commute, let alone any surface streets. The short answer is he can't make that trip and charge his car overnight at L1 rates. He's going to have to work something out with his boss and charge it from a standard outlet for the entire time he's at work to make an eGolf a viable option for this commute.
 
It depends on the top speed in the HOV lane during his commute. If he's moving along at 40 mph, then if he drives in Eco mode he may use up much less than half the battery every day. Averaging 5 miles per kWh (a value I achieve frequently with an 8 mile commute, 5 miles of which is freeway travel), he would use 7kWh a day for a 35 mile total distance. L1 charging would take less than 6 hours.

In short, I would say it depends on a lot of factors but it certainly wouldn't hurt to be able to charge at work.
 
bizzle said:
The short answer is he can't make that trip and charge his car overnight at L1 rates.

You lost me there. Let's say for the sake of argument that a 35 mile commute eats 50% of battery and he needs to recover 11 kWh overnight to get back to full.

At 120v / 12a, you're putting in about 1.2 kW per hour. That works out to slightly over 9 hours.

So if he plugs in at 9 PM, it's close to 100% by 6 AM.
 
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