[Sticky] Charging Times clarified for all models and levels

[miimura]

Can someone explain the DC Fast Charging Package? Does this get you you 7.3 kW AC and DC if you find an SE with the package included?

Yes, that is correct. You get double the speed AC charging and you get the ability to use DC Fast Charge. All for the low, low price of $1,675.

Thank you! I thought so but the salesman at the dealer kept trying to tell me it was DC only. Calling VW Customer Care was useless as well. Interestingly every SE at the local dealer has the DC Fast Charging Package.

I think they made the SE without charging package just so they could hit a magic starting price that was lower than the lowest price Leaf S.

[JoulesThief]

YMMV, but unless all you do is drive short distances, and will always have le 7 or 8 hours to recharge at home, never with a public charger, the bargain entry level priced e-Golf SE that is stripped should be adequate for you. If you do a trip longer than 60 or 70 miles round trip, on the freeway in the diamond lane with the AC running on a hot day as the battery gets older, you will find , cheayourself in a time crunch with that slow, cheap entry level stock SE 3.6 kwh charger on board. When you are at a public charger getting only 3.0 KWH on 200 volts at 15 amps, you'r realize too late, how slow it really is. Choose wisely... for my needs, I want the 7.2 kwh charger on board. I hope when VW comes out in 2018 with the 35 kwh battery, that it will take a 10 kw charge with a 40 amp at 240V capacity charger pack on board, and DC quick charging.

[95GLX]

Thank you for this sticky thread. Can I hijack it with a question, advice? I am sure others could benefit from this when considering the purchase of an e-Golf.

I am seriously considering purchasing a Certified Pre-Owned 2016 e-Golf SE but it does not have the DCFC option. Since I am in a state (NC) that VW does not currently sell e-Golfs in, I have only seen pictures of the car and a CPO or used e-Golf is my only option. After seeing your charging times, it confirms my biggest concerns. I would more than likely require an e-Golf with the DCFC in order to suit my needs. I Live by the coast in North Carolina and commute to Virginia for work. Current commute is 32 miles each way, 1/2 country roads, 1/2 55 mph cross traffic/stop lighted 4 lane highway. I am transferring to a new position this summer that will add 18 miles to my commute, so it will be 50 miles each way. I will need to use the climate control most of the time. An SAE combo hook up charge station is available 2 blocks from my new work building in a shopping mall garage. Charging is free but parking will be $65 monthly. Free parking is available with a short light rail ride but no charge stations or 110 outlets available. Fuel costs with my current 2004 VW R32 would be $65-$75 a week so the monthly parking fee still keeps me ahead of the game. Will an SAE combo plug even work with the 2016 e-Golf without the DCFC option? It doesn't look like there is enough room inside the charge door.

So, for this to work with the SE without the DCFC and only a 3.6KWH (3.2 actual charging) I would need to be on a 220/240volt Level 2 charger for about 16 hours daily to stay as close to a 100% charge a possible. Work hours are 8-4, it's a 1 hour commute. So, leave at 0630 and home around 1700. I could definitely get 13 hours nightly at home, I already have a 220v/30amp welder outlet for the level 2 charger. The only wild card is the public charger, if someone is on it before me, I could be hosed. There are 2 more available in another location a few more blocks away though.

Wait for the SE or an SEL with the DCFC option or give it a shot with the SE 3.6 KWH onboard charger? It's a killer deal, $17K with only 670 miles.

[JoulesThief]

Thank you for this sticky thread. Can I hijack it with a question, advice? I am sure others could benefit from this when considering the purchase of an e-Golf.

I am seriously considering purchasing a Certified Pre-Owned 2016 e-Golf SE but it does not have the DCFC option. Since I am in a state (NC) that VW does not currently sell e-Golfs in, I have only seen pictures of the car and a CPO or used e-Golf is my only option. After seeing your charging times, it confirms my biggest concerns. I would more than likely require an e-Golf with the DCFC in order to suit my needs. I Live by the coast in North Carolina and commute to Virginia for work. Current commute is 32 miles each way, 1/2 country roads, 1/2 55 mph cross traffic/stop lighted 4 lane highway. I am transferring to a new position this summer that will add 18 miles to my commute, so it will be 50 miles each way. I will need to use the climate control most of the time. An SAE combo hook up charge station is available 2 blocks from my new work building in a shopping mall garage. Charging is free but parking will be $65 monthly. Free parking is available with a short light rail ride but no charge stations or 110 outlets available. Fuel costs with my current 2004 VW R32 would be $65-$75 a week so the monthly parking fee still keeps me ahead of the game. Will an SAE combo plug even work with the 2016 e-Golf without the DCFC option? It doesn't look like there is enough room inside the charge door.

So, for this to work with the SE without the DCFC and only a 3.6KWH (3.2 actual charging) I would need to be on a 220/240volt Level 2 charger for about 16 hours daily to stay as close to a 100% charge a possible. Work hours are 8-4, it's a 1 hour commute. So, leave at 0630 and home around 1700. I could definitely get 13 hours nightly at home, I already have a 220v/30amp welder outlet for the level 2 charger. The only wild card is the public charger, if someone is on it before me, I could be hosed. There are 2 more available in another location a few more blocks away though.

Wait for the SE or an SEL with the DCFC option or give it a shot with the SE 3.6 KWH onboard charger? It's a killer deal, $17K with only 670 miles.

Wait, and get anything you want with the 7.2kwh charger on board. VW suggests using the DCFC unit "sparingly" with no back to back DCFC recharges, it's in the owners manual. You really need a 240v 50amp outlet that will handle a 40 amp EVSE, if you want to do things right. A 30 amp welder outlet is only good for 24 amps, it is derated to 80% for continuous load like when recharging an electric car.

Unless where you work supplies an EVSE for you in the workplace parking lot, mooching electrons for free is a tough way to go. Better to provide your own source of recharging, on both ends, or pay to recharge somewhere near work. I don't feel with bad weather, a 50 mile commute each way is going to work out for you, unless you enjoy being tethered and waiting for a recharge... the base entry SE is probably not your best option, IMHO, not with 50 miles each way. That's two recharges per day.

It's a killer deal alright, so good a deal they can't give it away. There's your sign.

[95GLX]

[/quote]

Wait, and get anything you want with the 7.2kwh charger on board. VW suggests using the DCFC unit "sparingly" with no back to back DCFC recharges, it's in the owners manual. You really need a 240v 50amp outlet that will handle a 40 amp EVSE, if you want to do things right. A 30 amp welder outlet is only good for 24 amps, it is derated to 80% for continuous load like when recharging an electric car.

Unless where you work supplies an EVSE for you in the workplace parking lot, mooching electrons for free is a tough way to go. Better to provide your own source of recharging, on both ends, or pay to recharge somewhere near work. I don't feel with bad weather, a 50 mile commute each way is going to work out for you, unless you enjoy being tethered and waiting for a recharge... the base entry SE is probably not your best option, IMHO, not with 50 miles each way. That's two recharges per day.

It's a killer deal alright, so good a deal they can't give it away. There's your sign.[/quote]

Thanks for the input! I needed confirmation of my concerns. Dealer was assuring me I would be okay with the 3.6 KWH charger even if I only had 4 hours are work. I wasn't sure they were accurate from my research and then found this thread.

My welder outlet is actually 240V 60 amps; two connecting 30 amp breakers. I thought they were only 20 amps each. So, home charging would be a level 2 40 AMP EVSE. I will throw my meter on it to double check output. I am in a federal building with no parking so charging at work will have to be on a public charger, it's a Green Charge/ChargePoint+ station. I guess I will wait. I am sure when the longer range 2017's come out I can get an even better deal on a 2016 with the 7.2 KWH onboard.

If the ChargePoint+ has the SAE combo plug will that always give you a fast charge or can you just go normal charge? Since the fast charge is the best to prolong battery life.

Also, will the SAE combo plug even connect to a non DCFC e-Golf charge port?

[johnnylingo]

Will an SAE combo plug even work with the 2016 e-Golf without the DCFC option? It doesn't look like there is enough room inside the charge door.

No, it will not. SAE combo is for DCFC only. The two bottom prongs would cause the J1772 plug to not even insert. Even if you could magically get it in, DCFC stations like NRG EVgo will not do L2 charging.

Wait for the SE or an SEL with the DCFC option or give it a shot with the SE 3.6 KWH onboard charger? It's a killer deal, $17K with only 670 miles.

That is pretty nice, but FYI the sale price on mine was $23.5k which comes to $16k after the federal tax credit. And this was back in August. California is still crazy overstocked with them, but North Carolina is a different market of course.

Personally I'd say you have 3 realistic options, otherwise the hassle of fighting over the chargers near work will give you buyer's remorse...

1. Get the used 2016 SE and install an L2 charging station at home
2. Look around for 2015/2016 with 7.2 kW charger so you only need 2-3 hours of charging at work to get back to full and/or have DCFC as an option
3. Wait for the 2018 models with the 125 mile range batteries, so that you don't need to recover a full charge each night.

[miimura]

Wait, and get anything you want with the 7.2kwh charger on board. VW suggests using the DCFC unit "sparingly" with no back to back DCFC recharges, it's in the owners manual. You really need a 240v 50amp outlet that will handle a 40 amp EVSE, if you want to do things right. A 30 amp welder outlet is only good for 24 amps, it is derated to 80% for continuous load like when recharging an electric car.

Unless where you work supplies an EVSE for you in the workplace parking lot, mooching electrons for free is a tough way to go. Better to provide your own source of recharging, on both ends, or pay to recharge somewhere near work. I don't feel with bad weather, a 50 mile commute each way is going to work out for you, unless you enjoy being tethered and waiting for a recharge... the base entry SE is probably not your best option, IMHO, not with 50 miles each way. That's two recharges per day.

It's a killer deal alright, so good a deal they can't give it away. There's your sign.

Thanks for the input! I needed confirmation of my concerns. Dealer was assuring me I would be okay with the 3.6 KWH charger even if I only had 4 hours are work. I wasn't sure they were accurate from my research and then found this thread.

My welder outlet is actually 240V 60 amps; two connecting 30 amp breakers. I thought they were only 20 amps each. So, home charging would be a level 2 40 AMP EVSE. I will throw my meter on it to double check output. I am in a federal building with no parking so charging at work will have to be on a public charger, it's a Green Charge/ChargePoint+ station. I guess I will wait. I am sure when the longer range 2017's come out I can get an even better deal on a 2016 with the 7.2 KWH onboard.

If the ChargePoint+ has the SAE combo plug will that always give you a fast charge or can you just go normal charge? Since the fast charge is the best to prolong battery life.

Also, will the SAE combo plug even connect to a non DCFC e-Golf charge port?

First, a SAE Combo charger will not connect at all to a car that does not have DCFC. DC Fast chargers will put energy in as fast as the charger can and the car will allow. If you look up that station on PlugShare and post the link, we can tell you exactly what type it is and what it can do. The 2016 SE with DCFC also gets the upgraded on-board 7.2kW charger. So, it will charge twice as fast on a public AC charging station.

Second, let's do a little math. If you have a 50 mile drive to work and you get 3.5mi/kWh driving efficiency (low for an e-Golf except in below freezing weather) you will need to recharge 50 mi / 3.5 mi/kWh=14.3kWh The time required will be 14.3 kWh / 3.6 kW / 85% = 4.67 hours. If you drive with a higher efficiency, like 4.0 mi/kWh, then the time to replace the energy used in that drive will go down to barely over 4 hours. On the other hand, a public charging station on commercial power could be as low as 205VAC, so the time for the 3.5mi/kWh case could be as long as 14.3 kWh / 3.0 kW / 85% = 5.6 hours.

Third, your description of your welder circuit is not very clear. If you want us to help you sort it out, post pictures of the circuit breaker and outlet, preferably in a separate forum thread.

[95GLX]

Will an SAE combo plug even work with the 2016 e-Golf without the DCFC option? It doesn't look like there is enough room inside the charge door.

No, it will not. SAE combo is for DCFC only. The two bottom prongs would cause the J1772 plug to not even insert. Even if you could magically get it in, DCFC stations like NRG EVgo will not do L2 charging.

Wait for the SE or an SEL with the DCFC option or give it a shot with the SE 3.6 KWH onboard charger? It's a killer deal, $17K with only 670 miles.

That is pretty nice, but FYI the sale price on mine was $23.5k which comes to $16k after the federal tax credit. And this was back in August. California is still crazy overstocked with them, but North Carolina is a different market of course.

Personally I'd say you have 3 realistic options, otherwise the hassle of fighting over the chargers near work will give you buyer's remorse...

1. Get the used 2016 SE and install an L2 charging station at home
2. Look around for 2015/2016 with 7.2 kW charger so you only need 2-3 hours of charging at work to get back to full and/or have DCFC as an option
3. Wait for the 2018 models with the 125 mile range batteries, so that you don't need to recover a full charge each night.

Thanks for answering the SAE combo charge plug to a straight J1772 charge port. I didn't think it would work, well unless the 2 DCFC prongs just sat underneath not connected to anything. I just don't think there is enough room for that to happen though.

As far as your lease at $23.5 being a better deal:

If you're leasing a vehicle, the credit stays with the leasing company, which is the actual owner of the car or truck. In most cases, however, the tax credit has been factored into the cost of the lease, so the customer still benefits. Lease programs for the VW e-Golf include the $7,500 tax credit to lower the lease payments.

If you leased, the federal tax credit (FTC) is applied up front and taken off the sale price. That is, If you're leasing a vehicle, the credit stays with the leasing company, which is the actual owner of the car or truck. In most cases, however, the tax credit has been factored into the cost of the lease, so the customer still benefits. Lease programs for the VW e-Golf include the $7,500 tax credit to lower the lease payments.

Also, if you purchase, you don't see the full advantage of the FTC unless you owe more than the FTC in taxes owed. I learned this back when I purchased a 2009 TDI and didn't get a penny back from the FTC. A Federal Tax Credit works great if you don't pay taxes all year and have to pay at the end though. Leasing is the best way to take advantage of it if a lease works out for you. The state incentives are different and you have to apply for those on your own but I think you know that already. So, yes, a 2016 e-Golf SE at $16,990 Certified Pre-Owned is still a better deal than a $23.5 lease, unless you get $6,511 in state incentives. We didn't even talk about the residual or trade-in value either.

[95GLX]

[/quote]First, a SAE Combo charger will not connect at all to a car that does not have DCFC. DC Fast chargers will put energy in as fast as the charger can and the car will allow. If you look up that station on PlugShare and post the link, we can tell you exactly what type it is and what it can do. The 2016 SE with DCFC also gets the upgraded on-board 7.2kW charger. So, it will charge twice as fast on a public AC charging station.

Second, let's do a little math. If you have a 50 mile drive to work and you get 3.5mi/kWh driving efficiency (low for an e-Golf except in below freezing weather) you will need to recharge 50 mi / 3.5 mi/kWh=14.3kWh The time required will be 14.3 kWh / 3.6 kW / 85% = 4.67 hours. If you drive with a higher efficiency, like 4.0 mi/kWh, then the time to replace the energy used in that drive will go down to barely over 4 hours. On the other hand, a public charging station on commercial power could be as low as 205VAC, so the time for the 3.5mi/kWh case could be as long as 14.3 kWh / 3.0 kW / 85% = 5.6 hours.

Third, your description of your welder circuit is not very clear. If you want us to help you sort it out, post pictures of the circuit breaker and outlet, preferably in a separate forum thread.[/quote]

First-Thank you. I didn't think it would work. I definitely need the SE with the DCFC or and SEL. Look up Norfolk, VA on Plugshare or ChargePoint, SAE Combo or ChadeMo only.

Second-That is about what I was thinking but I still won't be able to use the public chargers in Norfolk.

Third- It's a 30 AMP Double Pole Breaker 120v/240V. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 4101580864

[miimura]

First, a SAE Combo charger will not connect at all to a car that does not have DCFC. DC Fast chargers will put energy in as fast as the charger can and the car will allow. If you look up that station on PlugShare and post the link, we can tell you exactly what type it is and what it can do. The 2016 SE with DCFC also gets the upgraded on-board 7.2kW charger. So, it will charge twice as fast on a public AC charging station.

Second, let's do a little math. If you have a 50 mile drive to work and you get 3.5mi/kWh driving efficiency (low for an e-Golf except in below freezing weather) you will need to recharge 50 mi / 3.5 mi/kWh=14.3kWh The time required will be 14.3 kWh / 3.6 kW / 85% = 4.67 hours. If you drive with a higher efficiency, like 4.0 mi/kWh, then the time to replace the energy used in that drive will go down to barely over 4 hours. On the other hand, a public charging station on commercial power could be as low as 205VAC, so the time for the 3.5mi/kWh case could be as long as 14.3 kWh / 3.0 kW / 85% = 5.6 hours.

Third, your description of your welder circuit is not very clear. If you want us to help you sort it out, post pictures of the circuit breaker and outlet, preferably in a separate forum thread.

First-Thank you. I didn't think it would work. I definitely need the SE with the DCFC or and SEL. Look up Norfolk, VA on Plugshare or ChargePoint, SAE Combo or ChadeMo only.

Second-That is about what I was thinking but I still won't be able to use the public chargers in Norfolk.

Third- It's a 30 AMP Double Pole Breaker 120v/240V. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 4101580864

All the e-Golf compatible fast chargers in the Norfolk, VA area are Signet chargers on Greenlots network. The only fast chargers on ChargePoint's network are CHAdeMO-only chargers at Nissan dealers.

Regarding the welder circuit, your choices for charging equipment are somewhat limited. You must use an EVSE with a rating equal to or less than your circuit. The Clipper Creek LCS-30 is perfectly matched and will deliver 24 amps to an EV. Their LCS-25 and Leviton's EVR-Green Mini will deliver 20 amps. An adjustable unit like the Siemens Versicharge can also be installed on that circuit, but must be hardwired. Most other EVSEs either need a larger 40 amp circuit or smaller 20 amp circuit for 16 amps to the car - which is good for a SE without fast charge. Anyway, you have a 30 amp circuit, it's best to install something matched exactly to it, so I would recommend the LCS-30P especially if you have a NEMA 14-30 outlet. If you have a NEMA 6-30 outlet, then maybe it's better to get the Leviton EVBL2 even though they shortchange you 4 amps.