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 Post subject: Re: Did you notice battery/range issues over time ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 66
Location: San Francisco, CA
Deschodt wrote:
It's been so good and so cheap ($140/mo lease is less than gas alone on my regular car) I *considered* actually buying it out. But the killer is the combo of the super expensive insurance and that battery drop, with a touch of "I got the low end model with zero frills". (the car costs 50% more to insure than my 911, despite being worth 1/4 of it - no joke - ins.co says it's new tech and expensive to repair)

Think I'll go back to a used gas powered beater for a couple of years and revisit when the gorgeous Audi GT appears or if VW actually pulls the trigger on something nice. I've enjoyed it.


Deschodt, you nailed my feelings exactly.

My 2016 SE lease ends in about a week, and I've flip-flopped about buying it out. (There's a third option of extending the lease 6 months if you call VW Credit directly, but it doesn't make financial sense for me since I'll need to pay for registration, the 36-month service, and a new tire.)

The range meets my needs right now, but not if the battery degrades to 75-80%.

If I had a fast charger I'd seriously consider keeping it. Instead I've decided to return it and go back to gas for a year or two and see what the electric options are then.

I was hoping that by now there'd be a greater selection of long-range vehicles to choose from.

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 Post subject: Re: Did you notice battery/range issues over time ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:41 am
Posts: 21
2015 SEL here, purchased April 2015. 69,4xx miles on the odometer and definitely seeing battery degradation.

The Guess-o-meter has indicated as high as 117 for me in the first and second summer I had the car. The lowest I've seen this winter is 63 on a full charge (winter around -5C). I used to be able to make it to work and back home (54 miles round trip) in cold weather with the low battery warning just barely coming on before I arrive home. Now I don't dare in the cold weather. Of course, I also can no longer pre-heat the car because I lost my access to car-net. Fortunately, my employer installed a level 2 charger so I can drive home on a full charge now. I'd probably have to stop at a level 3 charger on the way home if something prevents me from charging at work. Could really cause problems if I had to pick up a sick kid early from school since that's another 10 miles past my house from work.

I still love the car, but don't know what I'm going to do with in the next year or two when I can only drive it 50 miles in the summer. That's really going to limit where I can drive it since L2/L3 public charging infrastructure is really not developed fully around my parts.

There is no doubt I'll hit the 100,000 mile mark before 10 years pass. I'll probably hit it in about 18 months. What's the magical kWh threshold for 70%? I believe the battery is 24.3 kWh, but I've seen others online saying something about a net limit instead of the advertised limit. Does anyone know what that limit is?


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 Post subject: Re: Did you notice battery/range issues over time ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:18 pm
Posts: 389
The GOM range is heavily dependent on driving style and HVAC usage, so your data is not very objective. Might you be able to tell us how many kWh it takes to charge from 10% SoC to 100% SoC? I’m sure your car’s pack has degraded but the GOM won’t help to accurately quantity capacity loss because of all the variables such as ambient temp, tire age, wind speed, driving style, etc.

The VW pack warranty is for 70% NET capacity. This is the usable capacity of your 24.2 kWh pack. New, I believe the pack had about 21.5 kWh usable energy content. You can read in this forum how to calculate usable pack capacity. Also, the pack capacity varies with pack temperature, with less usable energy available at temperatures significantly below 25 C. At -5C the available energy will be much less than at 25C.

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 Post subject: Re: Did you notice battery/range issues over time ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:48 am
Posts: 60
f1geek wrote:
The GOM range is heavily dependent on driving style and HVAC usage, so your data is not very objective.


I would disagree, not with your blanket statement above (indeed range is dependant on all that), but with the objectivity of my data ;-) I'm saying my commute is exactly the same, day over day, season over season, HVAC and driving style wise. I'm not complaining about a drop summer over winter, or slow driving vs fast driving, I'm saying year over year overall my range has decreased in similar circumstances... I also noticed a small hit when switching to tires not made of wood. I'm factoring all that in. It's normal, I get it, I did not expect that much drop though, and it is leading me to returning the car next month vs buying it out because I have no way to tell if this will level off...


Last edited by Deschodt on Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Did you notice battery/range issues over time ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:48 am
Posts: 60
I took some pics to illustrate today but this site won't host pics directly so too bad ;-)

This morning, 6AM, 45 outside... Full charge, my car shows just 63 mi range.... Full !
I drove 18.6 mi to work and got there with 53 mi range. So obviously the range # is not an exact science, but still I used to see more, like at least 80 on a full charge... It's not like I autocrossed it last night.

Forgetting the range # which is meaningless, my beef is I get to work with 3/4 tank left exactly - 1/4 gone. I used to get there with exactly one notch more, last year. Same everything. That's 25% loss on that drive (4 little notches of the gauge instead of 3 used, making 1/4 tank - would have been easier with pics). Add that one notch missing on the way home, and if I extend the drive a little to shopping or dropping off a kid, it becomes noticeable to where I get in eco mode before I get home, doing 50-55 miles. That is all I am saying. Noticeable drop all things being equal.

Maybe I should not have charged it fully everyday, but because I might need the full range any given day for an emergency or work, I cannot gamble. if it had 200 mi range then yes I would have considered a 75% charge or whatever... Also, nobody at VW ever recommended not fully charging.

Hey quick unrelated Q: Would you reinstall the ecopia tires before lease return inspection or leave "normal" tires on. Will they care ? I took mine off and stored them because they were too slippery and irritating under braking (chirping all the time). I mean will they object to the car coming back on non-low-rolling resistance tires ?


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 Post subject: Re: Did you notice battery/range issues over time ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:57 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:18 pm
Posts: 389
Deschodt, I'm not sure why you won't perform some simple math - calculating the usable battery capacity is far more exact than seat of the pants guesses. There are posts on this forum that explain how to perform the math, and then you will have a real number so you can tell what % capacity your car truly has. And if you perform the calculation repeatedly, you can get a nice graph of battery degradation rate. If your battery has a usable capacity of 20 kWh and you average 3 miles/kWh in the winter, that equates to 60 miles of range. If you average 6 miles per kWh in summer driving with the same usable capacity, that equates to 120 miles of range.

I find it highly unlikely that you will see only 50 miles of range in the summer in a few years, but without a plot of pack capacity as a function of time, it is very hard to accurately predict the pack performance. You will need the math to prove to VW that battery needs to be replaced under warranty. VW won't give you a new pack based on a guess - VW will look at the cold, hard objective data and then decide if the pack meets the warranty limits. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Did you notice battery/range issues over time ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:01 pm
Posts: 2180
You took off the low rolling resistance tires on your e-Golf. You cut into the range right there. You placed more load on the battery the whole time you had them removed. You discharged the battery deeper before every recharge. You want to play, you gotta pay. That includes the battery, nothing is free.

Suggestion, next time, buy or lease a car that's exactly the way you want it, off of the dealerships lot. Don't tamper with sticky tires. Understand you are not using the car as VW designed it. Your usage is outside the scope of use VW envisioned. They don't have diamond lanes in Germany. VW doesn't design electric cars for diamond lane use, that's something California government concocted to try to control your behavior and influence your car purchases, to their ulterior motives.

I usually have to recharge my 2015 e-Golf every 3 or 4 trips, or every 4 to 6 days. I'm doing 90 to 105 miles on a charge and leaving 8 to 25 miles left before recharging. I drive BLVDs and residential streets. I charge fully every time I recharge in the garage. I run stock tires. I get 6 to 6.3 miles per kwh. If I leave early in the morning for the airport, say 6 am, and it's 35 to 45F out, I see 5.5 to 5.7 miles per kWh. I never run the heater, never heat the seats, I dress appropriately for the weather and temps outside, and don't run extraneous stuff or over tax my battery. Yes, I have lost some range. seems to be about 4-5 miles of range per recharge lost per year, so far, or thereabouts.

Do what you want, maybe emulate the way I drive. But I don't see a VW e-Golf being a good fit for your driving style, technique, or needs. I only see that you are cheap, want high performance, and you're trying to put lipstick on a pig. Trying to make an e-Golf something that it is not.

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