ccs charging network
- Thread starter dd123
- Start date
johnnylingo
***
It's going to take you a really long time to get from SFO to SD. At 60-65 mph I find I can get about 70 miles (CA winter) to about 85 miles (CA spring, summer and fall) on the highway from a full battery until I have under 10 miles of range left. To charge up to ~80 to 90% state of charge will take at least 30 minutes, maybe 45 minutes at a 24 kW DCFC station. And then since you won't have a full battery, your next DCFC stop will have to come sooner than the first one. Like I said, this is going to take a long time.
I'm sure someone on this forum will tell you that you are going to destroy your battery if you have a lot of consecutive charging sessions, but based on my communications with VW, it isn't a catastrophe. Here's a quote from a VW rep: "While it isn't recommended to use the DC fast charge as the only charging source or all the time, I am not familiar with there being specific instructions not to use it consecutively. I know the fast charge doesn't distribute the charges evenly, as the slow charge does, which is why it isn't encouraged over the slow charge when the slow charge is an option." If you own the car, you may not want to do it. If you are leasing I doubt it will affect your three year driving experience.
Good luck!
I'm sure someone on this forum will tell you that you are going to destroy your battery if you have a lot of consecutive charging sessions, but based on my communications with VW, it isn't a catastrophe. Here's a quote from a VW rep: "While it isn't recommended to use the DC fast charge as the only charging source or all the time, I am not familiar with there being specific instructions not to use it consecutively. I know the fast charge doesn't distribute the charges evenly, as the slow charge does, which is why it isn't encouraged over the slow charge when the slow charge is an option." If you own the car, you may not want to do it. If you are leasing I doubt it will affect your three year driving experience.
Good luck!
miimura
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Time will be the biggest problem with this journey. The distance from SFO to SAN (airport to airport) is 540 miles along the 101 corridor, which has suitable charging sites. At an average speed of 65 miles an hour the driving part will take about 8.3 hours. Subtracting 70 miles for your initial charge level, you will need to add 470 miles of range by charging en-route. Most of those miles can be added at 50kW stations which deliver an average of 38kW to an e-Golf which at 3.5mi/kWh is 133 miles/hr of charging. At least 50 miles of charge will have to be added at slower 24kW stations which deliver an average of 20kW to an e-Golf for 70 miles/hr of charging. So, it adds up like this:
Driving time: 540 miles / 65 mph = 8.3 hr
50kW charging: 400 miles / 133 mph = 3.0 hr
24kW charging: 70 miles / 70 mph = 1.0 hr
Total: 12.3 hours
In reality, you will spend more than 4 hours charging because of charge tapering. There are some places where you will need to charge above 80% and the charging slows down dramatically above that point. Also, depending on ambient temperatures, you may experience slowed charging due to heat accumulation in the battery.
PlugShare Trip Planner map shown below. You would probably want to charge for a few minutes in Gilroy to be sure to make it to Salinas. The trip planner only allows 8 waypoints, so I dropped that one.
Long story short, I would not do this trip unless I was "repositioning" the car and would spend more than 2 weeks in San Diego. It's going to take a full day of traveling each way. Personally, I would rather fly and rent a car.
Driving time: 540 miles / 65 mph = 8.3 hr
50kW charging: 400 miles / 133 mph = 3.0 hr
24kW charging: 70 miles / 70 mph = 1.0 hr
Total: 12.3 hours
In reality, you will spend more than 4 hours charging because of charge tapering. There are some places where you will need to charge above 80% and the charging slows down dramatically above that point. Also, depending on ambient temperatures, you may experience slowed charging due to heat accumulation in the battery.
PlugShare Trip Planner map shown below. You would probably want to charge for a few minutes in Gilroy to be sure to make it to Salinas. The trip planner only allows 8 waypoints, so I dropped that one.
Long story short, I would not do this trip unless I was "repositioning" the car and would spend more than 2 weeks in San Diego. It's going to take a full day of traveling each way. Personally, I would rather fly and rent a car.
daeofcal
***
Speak of the devil! And my first post! :mrgreen:
I just completed this a few days ago during the rainiest weekend in memory from Hayward to SF to San Diego over the course of about 36 hours. It was not a continuous charging and driving session BTW. Here's the background:
I have been looking to lease an eGolf SE w/ FC for some time. http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/ was crucial in making the decision on where to get it. I was considering whether to have it shipped down for about $600 or make a road trip out of it for what I guestimated would cost about $400. Then about two weeks ago despite the weather reports, I decided I was going to make the trip the following weekend, so told VW Hayward that I wanted a lease, and created accounts for Chargepoint and EVgo for the return trip down the 101. The map on Plugshare made it pretty obvious that I-5 was not an option.
My conclusions:
1. eGolf SE w/ FC is definitely not a road trip car.
2. Its a BIG FATAL assumption to think that the Fast Chargers are always up, running, and available.
3. There is usually only one Fast Charger at each "station."
4. Rate of charging drops for the last 10-15%, and makes fast charging expensive when stations have per time charge on top of the kWh charge. In another words, don't try to top off.
5. Slower driving = more mileage per charge, but the danger you pose to yourself and other drivers increases as the difference between the traffic speed and your speed increases.
6. Condensation becomes a safety problem running on Eco+ mode if temperature is much colder outside. At some point, you have to decide to run the HVAC or roll down the windows. (if its not raining
)
7. Butt warmer at the lowest setting seems to suck less energy than the HVAC. The alternative is to throw on more layers.
Total trip was 615 miles and I averaged 3.9 mi/kWh, with 99% of it on Eco+ mode. Travel time for the last 461 miles was 9:53. I lost the information for the first 154 miles because the odometer/computer controls are so counter-intuitive. I made 10x FC stops (7x Chargepoint, 3x EVgo) and 4x Level 2 stops.
Chargepoint has better web/app presence and accessibility, but their phone customer service and the reliability of their fast charge stations left something to be desired. EVgo on the other hand has no web/app presence, but their customer service and the fast charge station reliability were excellent. Because I have no realtime view of usage with EVgo, I'm a bit fearful of the bill I will receive next month.
Anyways, if I was ever to do this again, I would plan for about a 4 day trip to take advantage of all the free/low cost Level 2 chargers and to enjoy the scenery along the way.
I just completed this a few days ago during the rainiest weekend in memory from Hayward to SF to San Diego over the course of about 36 hours. It was not a continuous charging and driving session BTW. Here's the background:
I have been looking to lease an eGolf SE w/ FC for some time. http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/ was crucial in making the decision on where to get it. I was considering whether to have it shipped down for about $600 or make a road trip out of it for what I guestimated would cost about $400. Then about two weeks ago despite the weather reports, I decided I was going to make the trip the following weekend, so told VW Hayward that I wanted a lease, and created accounts for Chargepoint and EVgo for the return trip down the 101. The map on Plugshare made it pretty obvious that I-5 was not an option.
My conclusions:
1. eGolf SE w/ FC is definitely not a road trip car.
2. Its a BIG FATAL assumption to think that the Fast Chargers are always up, running, and available.
3. There is usually only one Fast Charger at each "station."
4. Rate of charging drops for the last 10-15%, and makes fast charging expensive when stations have per time charge on top of the kWh charge. In another words, don't try to top off.
5. Slower driving = more mileage per charge, but the danger you pose to yourself and other drivers increases as the difference between the traffic speed and your speed increases.
6. Condensation becomes a safety problem running on Eco+ mode if temperature is much colder outside. At some point, you have to decide to run the HVAC or roll down the windows. (if its not raining
)7. Butt warmer at the lowest setting seems to suck less energy than the HVAC. The alternative is to throw on more layers.
Total trip was 615 miles and I averaged 3.9 mi/kWh, with 99% of it on Eco+ mode. Travel time for the last 461 miles was 9:53. I lost the information for the first 154 miles because the odometer/computer controls are so counter-intuitive. I made 10x FC stops (7x Chargepoint, 3x EVgo) and 4x Level 2 stops.
Chargepoint has better web/app presence and accessibility, but their phone customer service and the reliability of their fast charge stations left something to be desired. EVgo on the other hand has no web/app presence, but their customer service and the fast charge station reliability were excellent. Because I have no realtime view of usage with EVgo, I'm a bit fearful of the bill I will receive next month.
Anyways, if I was ever to do this again, I would plan for about a 4 day trip to take advantage of all the free/low cost Level 2 chargers and to enjoy the scenery along the way.
cctop
***
daeofcal said:
Welcome daeofcal!
You win the award for most committed eGolf driver (or perhaps the driver that should be committed!)
Quite an impressive achievement! I recently drove the e-Golf during a stormy day and had to leave the A/C on to keep the windows clear. I also got stung by the Harden Ranch DCFC station showing an "internal fault" error after 1 minute of successful charging. Chargepoint, like you said, was of no help. I have since contacted both them and IES Synergy about the reliability of the Express 100 stations and I heard from Chargepoint that they are working to improve the software. We'll see.
miimura
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Yes, the IES Synergy units that are branded ChargePoint Express 100 and BMW i are not very reliable. That is one problem with the 101 corridor today, you must rely on them in King City and Paso Robles to bridge the gap between Salinas and San Luis Obispo. However, it is better than the zero CHAdeMO chargers in that 130 mile gap. Hopefully the fast chargers funded by the California Energy Commission will be installed on 101 and I-5 this year.
See my map of future charging sites to see how it will be filled in by these grants.
See my map of future charging sites to see how it will be filled in by these grants.
daeofcal
***
It would be nice to see a few more fast charge stations between San Diego and its adjacent counties. The I-5 and the I-15 are major corridors, but there is one 1 between Irvine and Downtown SD, and none between Riverside and San Diego.
I think my biggest gripe is the lack of multiple chargers at most locations. I'm fully aware that multiple 50kWh chargers drawing full power at the same time is equivalent to the power draw of a small town, and that can create sharp demand spikes that our electrical grids just may not be capable of handling at the moment.
Most people assume that gas stations have more than just one filling stall. Unfortunately, I think that assumption carries over into the BEV arena, so people are appalled when they see just one FC stall within a 40 mile radius. Hopefully practical delivery solutions also develop along with more FC stations so that one or two stalls being out of commission doesn't wreck one's roadtrip.
I think my biggest gripe is the lack of multiple chargers at most locations. I'm fully aware that multiple 50kWh chargers drawing full power at the same time is equivalent to the power draw of a small town, and that can create sharp demand spikes that our electrical grids just may not be capable of handling at the moment.
Most people assume that gas stations have more than just one filling stall. Unfortunately, I think that assumption carries over into the BEV arena, so people are appalled when they see just one FC stall within a 40 mile radius. Hopefully practical delivery solutions also develop along with more FC stations so that one or two stalls being out of commission doesn't wreck one's roadtrip.
miimura
***
I think you're exaggerating or misinformed. Not only are there multiple NRG EVgo sites between the cities mentioned, but there are pairs of chargers that can charge two CCS vehicles at the same time at many of those locations.daeofcal said:
For example, between Irvine and Downtown San Diego:
The Shops at Mission Viejo
Ocean View Plaza, San Clemente
Carlsbad Premium Outlets
Lazy Acres, Encinitas (1 CCS)
Whole Foods, Del Mar (1 CCS)
SDG&E Innovation Center (1 CCS)
Between Riverside & San Diego
Walmart Supercenter, Corona
Outlets at Lake Elsinore
Walmart Murrieta
Vail Ranch Center, Temecula
Menifee Town Center
Del Norte Plaza, Escondido
Vons Rancho Panesquitos Center
Now, if you want to complain about I-8, you certainly have a case. There is not a single CCS charger on I-8 east of El Cajon.
daeofcal
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I stand corrected. I had the Chargepoint network filter on.
