Electric Car Newbe....

[xmac81]

Hi,

I have a 2010 Jetta TDI that I will be turning in when VW buys them back. I'm trying to get the wife interested in a used 2015 e-golf SEL. I have a gas car to use on longer trips.

Questions that come to mind are:
1. Are there any issue with the 2015 e-golf that I should consider not purchasing a used one? My budget would only allow a used one. I do NOT want to purchase from a dealer, only private party. Too many dealer problems in the past. I'm starting to see some used ones (dealer) approaching $17k. My cap is just under $15k. I may have to wait for a short while to get one in that price range.

2. 220v charging at home - I have a 220v outlet in my garage. I can make it either a 30a or 50a circuit. Where can I pickup a new/used charging station at a good price? I can install it myself. Does anyone on the forum have one they want to sell? Also, I've heard of some charging stations that double as power sources for homes when the utility power goes out. Does anyone know of these and have any experiences with them?

3. Recharge cost - The wife seems to think the recharge cost will be significant. How can I calculate the monthly cost (based on a worst case)?

4. Maintenance costs - I haven't seen anything related to this. Is there any maintenance? If so, is this something I can do myself, or a dealer has to do? If dealer, at what cost?

5. Midwest Winters - I live in a suburb of Chicago. The car would be used year round. I know the 2015's come with a heat pump and only come in SEL trim levels and LED's all around. Does anyone have any experience with the e-golf in the winter? The car will be in a heated garage all year round for charging.

6. Private Party sale - Where is a good source for used e-golfs by private parties?

7. Is there anything I left out that should be considered?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

 

[judah8750]

Unfortunately this forum seems to be less than thriving. Certain people will probably tell you to google and do some research. I'm riding a high right now though as I am 1 week in on a leased 2016 SE, so I'll help you out with a bit of information. I know how daunting this is as an early adopter, not even the dealer can answer questions and you probably don't have friends with one yet.

1. If you were my friend or family I would strongly argue against you buying a used EV. Batteries degrade and much better technology is coming out every year. You can buy a used Leaf that was more than $30k new with 30k miles for $8k. Why? Because no one wants to buy it. On the one hand you can get a used EV for very cheap compared to an equivalent model gasser but who would you sell it to? Imagine buying a used EV as third owner when a replacement battery would be more than the value of the car! For these same arguments, you can see why most people who do there research don't want to buy new either. I recommend a lease. With all the incentives and it being the end of the year, you can get a good deal potentially. By the way I used my being a TDI owner as fodder to get them to give me a better lease deal.

2. I bought a JuiceBox 40. It's 40A and 10 KWH. Overkill to be sure but it will be awesome for my Tesla Model 3 in a few years. they are $399. You ca use your 240v on a 50A circuit. You just have to switch the outlet to a NEMA 14-50. There is a $1000 federal tax credit by the way! http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/10513

3.Yeah, you can figure this out with a little homework. It's pretty easy to do some basic calculations from your miles driven last year against the rated miles pr KWH then factor in your utility costs.

4. Maintenance is relatively low unless something drastic happens. But basically brake pads and wipers. If you use the regen braking you can reduce your brake pad usage by a ton!

5. I don't have experience here but it will eat into your range considerably.

6. Don't do it!

7. Probably a lot! Haha good luck! I love mine and am super happy I chose this car over other options.

 

[JoulesThief]

Hold off on turning in your TDI, and hold out for a Chevy Bolt or a Tesla 3 or something that's not a compliance CARB or EPA car. Or wait for the 2018 e-Golf to come out and work a trade with a VW dealership then for a good deal on the newer e-Golf with the 35 kwh hour battery and more range.

What do you pay per kw for electricity and what tier are you in, and how much closer are you to being bumped up to a higher priced electrical tier. Is Illinois Duke Energy Corp, and coal power generation there in IL? I bet you have 240V, not 200, in your garage, if non commercial voltage, residential Voltage on a "D" Transformer.

 

[RonDawg]

1. There has been a safety recall on the car and some TSB's. The safety recall addresses a problem in which the car would mysteriously shut off for no apparent reason; some early eGolfers have experienced this and perhaps a couple had their cars lemon-lawed as a result before VW figured out what was going on. As you are buying from a private party, make sure the safety recall was done. As far as TSB's, they have to do with issues like the climate control wanting to reset to 72 degrees every time you shut off the car. The safety recall and most of the TSB's are purely software updates.

2. There are numerous charging stations (EVSE) out there. In order to get the fastest charging speed, get an EVSE of at least 30 amps. If your circuit can handle 50 amps, even better but it won't charge your eGolf any faster. Clipper Creek is a trusted brand in the EV community but these had issues with the timer control on the 2015's; there is a TSB to fix this. There are solutions that let your power your home from your EV but I don't know of any besides the one that Nissan considered offering for the Leaf, but AFAIK never did for the US market.

3. I can't say for certain as it will depend on your driving style and cost of electricity. In my area, to drive 1,000 miles costs about $40 in electricity at 13 cents/kWH. If you use public charging stations a lot, that can get rather pricey, especially if you use Quick Charge stations (the ones that will top off the battery to 80% or more in under 1/2 hour).

4. Extremely low. Most things that really need to be addressed are DIY things like cabin filters and tire rotations. On my Leaf, I only brought it to the dealer once a year for their mandated battery inspection, which they paid for. My own car's service minder says the next service is due at 20k (it currently has just over 8k). The VW dealers of course will insist that more servicing needs to be done, and charge accordingly.

5. For 2015 VW did offer an "LE" trim level which does use a resistive-type heater, but they were imported in far fewer numbers than the SEL. Other LE downgrades include cloth seats, steel wheels with plastic hubcaps, and halogen headlights.

6. I'd try AutoTrader and possibly eBay Motors. Or this forum; I've seen a couple pop up for sale here. But they can be hard to find since VW hasn't exactly sold a ton of them.

 

[xmac81]

Thanks for all the replies!

Some thoughts....
1. How much can a battery deteriorate in 2yrs? Doesn't VW warrant the battery for 8 year 70% coverage? Does that warranty transfer to the new owner? I do have a VAG-COM cable and program. Isn't there a way to check battery specifics before I buy? I'm thinking that (as with all technologies) when the battery will need replacing, they will be able to cram a larger capacity battery into the same space at half the cost, which will increase it's range. What does a replacement battery cost today? Has anyone ever had to replace one yet?
2. My electricity is supplied by ComEd. I am on a variable rate plan. Overnight, the prices are very very low, usually $0.02 kWh or less. How can I figure out an approximate cost, assuming 1500 miles a month? I would need a charger that would only kick in at specific times that I would program it to. Is it best practice to only charge after the battery is fully depleted, or to keep the battery between 20 to 80% full?
3. Most cars for sale are either on the east coast or west cost. Driving it back to Chicago would take forever with having to recharge every 100 miles. Does anyone know about towing one? Can all 4 wheels be on the ground or does the front two need to be off the ground? I have a SUV with a class 3 hitch. I could rent a car dolly that the front wheels go into and bring it home that way.
4. Aren't all the e-golfs made in Germany?

Your thoughts?

 

[bizzle]

No one knows deterioration rates, yet. Our eGolfs haven't been out long enough for those data and it can't be accessed by vcds as far as we know so far.

It's best to keep it charged between 20-80% and there's no mystery to calculate your costs. Some have driven with efficiencies as high as 6m per kwh and others as low as 3. Using the low end, you'd still only need to charge 500kwh, which would be ten dollars at your rate.

You'll only be able to cram a larger battery in there if it's the same size and I wouldn't count on anyone making one to fit aftermarket. They cost around 8k to replace, the cars are built in Germany, and they need to have all four wheels up during towing.

 

[JoulesThief]

It's only my belief, but I think 15,000 miles a year is not reasonable for a battery pack this small on an e-Golf. It would be one thing if you were keeping your TDI and this was a second car. But it it's your daily driver, that's a whole another matter.

That said, I bought my 2015 e-Golf SEL brand new about a year ago. I own 3 other TDI's. There is no way to straight substitute an e-Golf for a TDI, driving 15000 miles a year. It just wasn't designed for those kind of miles, it was designed for inter city driving. Your clue is looking at the speedometer in the dash... straight up is 50 mph, top speed is 87mph, and when you start going over 50 or 55, the battery range drops off a steep slope. German cars are designed with speedometers where when the gauge is straight up, pointing at 12:00, that is your designated cruising speed, it is what the cars complete integrated system was designed for. Probably 80mph for the Autobahns on your Golf TDI in Germany. 50 mph for an e-Golf. VW designs and engineers all their vehicles for the German market conditions, every where else you buy one is an afterthought. If you drive fast, your range drops predictably. You really need to count on an e-Golf having at most 1/10 the range of a TDI. I am coming from a 2014 Passat TDI SE and a 2013 Touareg TDI Sport models. I get 800+ miles on a tank. Many will be hard pressed to get 80 miles on an e-Golf charge, on the freeway. Certainly not if the traffic is flowing fast. You might be able to squeeze 100 miles on a charge, in stop and go, if you drive uber smooth and gently on the acceleration and deceleration, but very very few people, short of old, retired people, have the time and inclination to drive that way, day in and day out.

Do whatever you want, but i would not entertain buying an e-Golf with the intentions of driving 15k miles a year on it. 7 to 10k, sure. There is a very, very good reason VW offers these e-Golfs with 7.5k to 10k miles per year leases, day in, day out, to the market. There's your sign, they don't want you doing more than that per year... they probably know something that we don't and like dieselgate, they may be either not telling the truth, or just not telling.

Think about that 7.5 to 10k miles per year, or ignore, at your own peril. VW is a royal PIA for warranty work, far, far worse if you live in a non CARB state where they don't sell e-Golfs in the first place, no one has been trained to service them. Warranty issues might be problematic for you.

I've seen quotes of 18k for R&Ring a battery from Neftin VW in CA, and about $12k from a VW master tech in Nor Cal. Those were actual requested quotes I personally asked about. It's a 36k car, half of it is in the battery, the rest of the vehicle, far, far far less parts under the hood to wear out or break down, mechanically. Just electronics. The money and value of the MSRP is in the battery, and that's a limited shelf life item, due to the chemistry breaking down over time.

Your 15k cap is going to put you at the back of the line. E-Golfs going to auction are snapped up to be sold in 2nd hand markets where they don't have to truck them anywhere. Very, very few people buying these, almost all are lease returns to the dealership. So the dealerships are pretty much setting the prices.

As someone else said, I wouldn't do it, for many reasons.

 

[cctop]

when you start going over 50 or 55, the battery range drops off a steep slope. German cars are designed with speedometers where when the gauge is straight up...50 mph for an e-Golf.

Actually, based on the data presented in this thread, the falloff is surprisingly linear with the optimal speed about 18mph:

http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=927

Here's my graph of the data presented there:

 

[johnnylingo]

1. Are there any issue with the 2015 e-golf that I should consider not purchasing a used one? My budget would only allow a used one.

I'm surprised nobody mention the infotainment systems on the 2015s. They leave a bit to be desired, and this was probably the #1 complaint from buyers. The 2016 models have a higher resolution and support CarPlay and AndroidAuto. Even if you don't consider this important, it should be a consideration when buying regarding resale value.

I made a very detailed comparison chart of 2015 vs 2016 and trims here:

https://spaces.hightail.com/space/yZm8Z

 

[JoulesThief]

1. Are there any issue with the 2015 e-golf that I should consider not purchasing a used one? My budget would only allow a used one.

I'm surprised nobody mention the infotainment systems on the 2015s. They leave a bit to be desired, and this was probably the #1 complaint from buyers. The 2016 models have a higher resolution and support CarPlay and AndroidAuto. Even if you don't consider this important, it should be a consideration when buying regarding resale value.

I made a very detailed comparison chart of 2015 vs 2016 and trims here:
s an
https://spaces.hightail.com/space/yZm8Z

A lease is throw away money on a car, you can afford to be fussy about the infotainment center. it's a different set of conditions and concerns and price considerations when you plan to buy to own the car. You don't get as many choices buying used, not at the price point he is looking at, 15k. Used cars, you get what you get.

Frankly, I don't give a rats ass about my infotainment center.... I am too busy driving the car and looking out the windscreen to bother with what's on the screen showing on the infotainment center. And my Google Maps is way better than the navigation maps provided. So that pretty much relegates mine to a stereo system capable of SD cards, blue tooth streaming, Am radio, FM radio or Sirius. My Note 4 is upgradeable every 2 or 3 years, anyways, so the infotainment center is moot.