The egolf SEL is a luxury compact similar to the BMW 328i

The more I think about the car and the more I drive it, the more I like it. I now think of it as luxury compact at a give away price. The notion came up in a Tesla forum that said the Tesla Model 3 supposedly in 2017 for 35K was targeting the BMW 3 series which is called a luxury compact by these sites that let you compare 3 or 4 cars of your choice.
http://tinyurl.com/ln5ua3z

I posted I thought the Model 3 was competing more with the i3, egolf, leaf, bolt etc. But now I'm thinking the egolf comes closest to comparison with the BMW 328i and whatever the Tesla Model 3 luxury car would be. When you look at the egolf SEL, it's fully loaded. CCS charging, leather like seats, led lights, heated seats, cruise control, parking assist, partially powered seats, heated windshield, 5 passenger seating, SIRI radio, alloy wheels, 5 levels of regen, free roadside assist, 3 years of free car-net, etc. I can't see any features on the 328i not on the egolf. To me, the egolf drives and feels as good and better than bmw or mercedes. A similarly configured 328i is 44,000. At 27,000 after the tax rebate, vw should be selling 100k of these, not a few hundred a month in the US although I realize its only currently available in the carb states.

Ron

All logical points, but that's not the way the market has been segmented in the USA.
BMW has to compete against Audi as both companies have decided that that is their 'luxury' badge. VW probably competes against the MINI brand in marketeers eyes. Volkswagen Audi Group have brands such as Seat and Skoda in Europe that they don't even bring to the USA, presumably because there are no direct competitors in that segment and they don't want to move their average selling prices down if they don't have to. If / when the Golf GTE and Audi A3 etron arrive in the USA, you can bet that the Audi badged version will sell at a premium over the VW badged one even though they're the same under the skin.

The point is that buyers have been conditioned to group brands together. Someone considering a 3 series BMW is going to compare to Audi, not to VW. People who shop Audi probably know they can get almost the same car for less money with a VW badge on the front, but they choose not to. I think people make a choice between a BMW and an Audi and then look at power train choices. "Do I want the A3 with the 4 cylinder, the V6, the diesel, oh wait - they have a plug in hybrid version. Hmmm". I doubt many people who go into a BMW showroom with the intention of buying a 3 series come away with an i3 instead as they're such different cars (and personally I don't know why anyone would buy an i3!)

Hopefully the e-Golf will hold its own against the Tesla Model 3 when that comes out. Hopefully the second generation e-Golf will be out or imminent. I think Tesla is doing a great job of changing the marketing dynamic that I laid out above by getting people to think that they want an electric car first and then deciding between the 'affordable' Model 3, the SUV Model X or the sporty Model S. They're probably hoping to become the Kleenex of EVs and get people to think of them as THE electric car. Time will tell if the other manufacturers can offer enough choice to stop that becoming the case but I think that's why they're putting it out there that they're competing against the 3 series. There is no electric 3 series so no direct comparison can be made.

Oh, and that Nissan comparison site is practically worthless It put the 'Nissan Advantage' symbol on several categories where they're not the best or they're equal! :roll:

I changed the link to Edmunds as they show the egolf. The other sites other than Leaf didn't.

We had originally looked at a 328i, so I'm glad the Tesla post brought up the Model 3 vs 328i ice issue. Supposedly the Tesla Model3 will be 20% smaller than the S and use the 60kwh cylindrical battery. I never thought about comparing the egolf with the 328i directly and you're correct in the way the market looks at segments. But when I compare the egolf with a fully featured 328i, except for the range issue, I can't see much difference. Weight is almost the same, 328i is 10" longer but the egolf actually has more cargo space, ride is as good or better.

VW has been evolving and refining the golf ice for 40 years, and it shows with this seventh design using the MQB common platform for ice/diesel/electric and fuel cell. This may be giving the egolf a free ride. Winning 5 car of the year awards including car & driver tells me the VW image is on an uptrend and coming in at MSRP 27000 after incentive versus 43,000 configured for the 328i makes it a no brainer for me

Ron

cove3 said:

VW has been evolving and refining the golf ice for 40 years, and it shows with this seventh design using the MQB common platform for ice/diesel/electric and fuel cell. This may be giving the egolf a free ride. Winning 5 car of the year awards including car & driver tells me the VW image is on an uptrend and coming in at MSRP 27000 after incentive versus 43,000 configured for the 328i makes it a no brainer for me

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Totally agree - that's how come we're having this conversation on an e-Golf forum and not a BMW 3 series one!
This is my second Golf and I think there's noticeable improvement between the 6th gen one I had from 2010 and the 7th gen that we have now. The GTI had low profile tires and 'sports' suspension so it's not fair to do a direct ride quality comparison, but out other car is a Lexus CT200 and I prefer the ride (and the cabin) of the e-Golf over that. The off-the-line acceleration is _so_ much better than the CT200 hybrid too..!

When my lease is up on this car, I'll certainly be looking at Teslas but for 90% of the time I don't need the extra range, and as a two-car family there are very, very few times where the 90ish mile range of the e-Golf is going to be a problem for both of us on the same day. A cheaper Tesla will have to be very good to get me to switch (I'm still unconvinced by the utility of the giant touch screen for simple everyday tasks like changing the cabin temperature).

cove3 said:

I posted I also thought the Model 3 at that price would be competing with the i3, egolf, leaf, bolt etc. But here I think the egolf comes closest to comparison with the BMW 3 series and whatever the Tesla Model 3 would be. When you look at the SEL, it's fully loaded and I can't see any features on the 328 not on the egolf. To me, the egolf drives and feels as good or better than bmw or mercedes.
Ron

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As someone coming from three 3-series in a row to the e-Golf I have to agree with you. The Golf doesn't feel like a big "step down" at all. In fact I prefer most of it over my 2010 335i (which I'm selling, hint hint). Where the Golf falls short vs the BMW is in the nav, the seats and the baffling lack of integrated garage door opener. With the latest generation 3 series having very light and - compared to previous generations BMWs - somewhat vague electric power steering, the Golf comes very, very close in terms of handling. And in most city driving it feels quick and nimble, just like a new 3-series in sports mode. Except without any of the excessive shaking that the new 3-series engine produces when it starts up.

I'm confident vw will offer a 200-400 mile egolf at the same time Tesla offers a Model 3. vw is making a decision in July on the Quantumscape solid state battery they have a 10% stake in. I don't see how Tesla can do a ground up design and be competitive with the egolf MQB piggybacking off of millions of golf ices, not to mention the Model 3s use of the cylindrical Model S battery

http://insideevs.com/july-volkswagen-will-know-breakthrough-battery-tech-quantumscape-ready-primetime/

Ron

Tesla's battery factory is being designed with capacity to build as many batteries as the worldwide production total was last year - they're counting on economies of (very large) scale.
I heard an interview with someone from Tesla who was pointing out how far the components of the battery pack travel before they roll off the production line in a vehicle. They're aiming to reduce the net price of batteries by trying to reduce the miles traveled.

The key thing is Tesla appears to plan on getting the 200 miles with the same batteries as the S but get to the 35K price by cutting the battery cost 30%. It would be like the egolf getting 200 miles by putting in a 1600 lb battery instead of the 700 lb one.

I can't see how it can be done without the car weighing 4000+ lbs