Charging from TT-30 socket at RV campgrounds

[egolf2017toronto]

New e-Golf owner here with a fairly advanced technical question about charging.

The TT-30 outlet is a 120V 30A (24A continuous) service. It's known in campgrounds as "30 amp" service and is very common here in Ontario, Canada. Is it possible to use that outlet with the 2017 e-Golf to charge at a rate faster than the stock 120V Level 1 EVSE that VW includes with the car? If so, how?

I understand using TT-30 would require both a compatible EVSE and the charger in the car to support higher amperages over 120V. I've been trying to find an answer online and the only clear answers and adapters are for Tesla. There are also some references to converting the TT-30 service to 14-50, though those again seem very Tesla-specific.

My overall goal is to charge at campgrounds at a rate that's between Level 1's 120V 10-12A and Level 2's 240V 24A. The later requires "50 amp" at campgrounds (typically via 14-50 connector) and this service is rare at provincial parks here.

 

[bizzle]

I have an an OpenEVSE with an L6-20P plug and an adapter cable to a standard 15A 120V cable if you're interested. That will do L1 120V at 12A or L2 240V at 16A. You should be able to find an L6-20R to TT-30P online or contact Glenn on these forums. That's who built my EVSE. I bought it when I thought I was going to do a lot more traveling with the eGolf but my wife uses it every day for work and errands so I don't get to drive it much. If you're interested in the EVSE, let me know and I'll mail it out to you for what I paid ($300) plus shipping.

 

[BarryMW]

I suggest you speak with Emotor Werks regarding their Juicebox 40.
IIRC it is 120V capable and in 240V mode goes 10KW
BTW their support is awesome!

Please do let us know what you find out.

Barry

 

[miimura]

I don't know what the actual 120V capability is of the e-Golf on-board charger. Does anybody know for sure? OpenEVSE or JuiceBox would be just about the only EVSEs that I know of that would allow more than 16 amps on 120V. The max current you could charge with from a TT-30 is 24 amps.

 

[egolf2017toronto]

I don't know what the actual 120V capability is of the e-Golf on-board charger. Does anybody know for sure? OpenEVSE or JuiceBox would be just about the only EVSEs that I know of that would allow more than 16 amps on 120V. The max current you could charge with from a TT-30 is 24 amps.

That's the crux of the matter. I realize OpenEVSE can put out more than 12A at 120V, but can the 2017 e-Golf charger take it? Many EVs can only take 12A or at most 16A on 120V, as that may be the max for the J1772 standard on "L1".

So it appears the options for charging from TT-30 (at over 12A) are:

1) Use EVSE that can take 120V at up to 24A. This would only work if the built-in 2017 e-Golf charger can take the high amperage at 120V.
2) Use a solution similar to Quick220 to convert two 120V leads into 240V. This seems complicated to use in a campground setting, though it may be easier with TT-30 socket. I am a bit unclear about the electrical details.
3) Use a step-up transformer to convert 120V 30A to 240V at 15A. Then use any standard 240V portable EVSE at 30A (24A continuous). This solution is heavy (50lbs?), bulky and there are some losses from heat.

Any ideas? Has anyone tried charging from TT-30 at over 12A and succeeded?

 

[egolf2017toronto]

I don't know what the actual 120V capability is of the e-Golf on-board charger. Does anybody know for sure? OpenEVSE or JuiceBox would be just about the only EVSEs that I know of that would allow more than 16 amps on 120V. The max current you could charge with from a TT-30 is 24 amps.

Thanks. I've just inquired with them. Let's see what they say.

 

[egolf2017toronto]

I have an an OpenEVSE with an L6-20P plug and an adapter cable to a standard 15A 120V cable if you're interested. That will do L1 120V at 12A or L2 240V at 16A. You should be able to find an L6-20R to TT-30P online or contact Glenn on these forums. That's who built my EVSE. I bought it when I thought I was going to do a lot more traveling with the eGolf but my wife uses it every day for work and errands so I don't get to drive it much. If you're interested in the EVSE, let me know and I'll mail it out to you for what I paid ($300) plus shipping.

Thanks - but my requirement is to get over 12A at 120V. I can already get 12A from the standard 5-15 sockets that are available next to TT-30. Please correct me if I am missing something.

 

[forbin404]

The standard Delphi that VW gives is 15amp but I believe it's limited to 12A.

The EVSE box can be adjusted I believe, check with GlennD who builds them.

 

[GlennD]

I replaced the stock unit and I put it on the shelf for lease return so I do not really know anything about it. I did read the pilot with Nick Sayer's display and verified 1000Hz and 12A. It fails the lead acid test but that is understandable since it is supplied with a lithium eGolf.

 

[bizzle]

Thanks - but my requirement is to get over 12A at 120V. I can already get 12A from the standard 5-15 sockets that are available next to TT-30. Please correct me if I am missing something.

The unit is adjustable from the LCD screen. It's currently set to draw 16A@120V because I've used it with a 20A outlet. The limit would be the wiring gauge and obtaining an adapter (L620-R to TT30-P), which GlennD can help you with if he's willing.

 

[egolf2017toronto]

Thanks - but my requirement is to get over 12A at 120V. I can already get 12A from the standard 5-15 sockets that are available next to TT-30. Please correct me if I am missing something.

The unit is adjustable from the LCD screen. It's currently set to draw 16A@120V because I've used it with a 20A outlet. The limit would be the wiring gauge and obtaining an adapter (L620-R to TT30-P), which GlennD can help you with if he's willing.

Thanks for the clarification. It looks like the EVSE end can be managed with either OpenEVSE or for example JuiceBox. I've just had JuiceBox support confirm they can in fact reconfigure (refurbished only) units to do >16A at 120V.

The question remains however whether the e-Golf itself can handle >16A at 120V. Without this no magic on EVSE end would help. The J1772 standard only allows Level 1 up to 16A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772). Has anyone here successfully charged any model year e-Golf at >16A at 120V?

 

[JoulesThief]

Take a picture of the inside of your charging port. If it supports L3 DC quick charging with CCS DC Fast Charge, then the charger pack on board will support up to 30 amps, whether it's 120V or 240V. If that's the case, adjust your EVSE amperage rate to up to 24 amps at 120V for that 120V 30 amp camper outlet, or do the same in your infotainment center, if you can adjust it there.


It should be noted that most RV parks also have what are known as NEMA 14-50, 50 amp 240V outlets. These outlets, with a proper EVSE unit, are the real deal, capable of you plugging in your EVSE, and delivering 30 amps at 240V for all but the last 15 minutes of recharging time. You can have the needle on the gauge just touching the red and 3 hours should give you a 98% charge, 3 hours and 15 min a 100% SOC. This is rumored to be Standard in the USA on the 2017 models. Take a picture of your charging port and get it hosted somewhere and post it up here. Or a picture of your window sticker showing the options and mention of charging time. If it says charging time in 5 to 6 hours for a 35.8 kwh charging pack, you have the 30 amp charger on board. It it mentions 10 to 12 hours, you have the 3.6kwh charger pack on board.

 

[bizzle]

Finally found you a TT-30 adapter:
https://evseadapters.com/collections/adapters-for-tesla/products/nema-14-50r-to-tt-30p-adapter

With that one you could charge at whatever rate the eGolf charger caps at or 240V with the 14-50 using either the EVSE I have or a Juice Box. Even if you can only charge at 16A that's faster than 12A...but you'll still have to be charging for longer than a day regardless unless you find a 240V source. I can't test your question because I have an SE.

 

[egolf2017toronto]

Take a picture of the inside of your charging port. If it supports L3 DC quick charging with CCS DC Fast Charge, then the charger pack on board will support up to 30 amps, whether it's 120V or 240V. If that's the case, adjust your EVSE amperage rate to up to 24 amps at 120V for that 120V 30 amp camper outlet, or do the same in your infotainment center, if you can adjust it there.

All 2017 e-Golfs in Canada come with a 7.2kW charger with CCS. Source: https://vwmodels.ca/pdfs/egolf/2017-en.pdf

May I ask for the source of 24A being supported at 120V by the e-Golf 7.2kW charger? Have you tried it personally? Is it from an official document or an online reference?

It should be noted that most RV parks also have what are known as NEMA 14-50, 50 amp 240V outlets. These outlets, with a proper EVSE unit, are the real deal, capable of you plugging in your EVSE, and delivering 30 amps at 240V for all but the last 15 minutes of recharging time. You can have the needle on the gauge just touching the red and 3 hours should give you a 98% charge, 3 hours and 15 min a 100% SOC. This is rumored to be Standard in the USA on the 2017 models. Take a picture of your charging port and get it hosted somewhere and post it up here. Or a picture of your window sticker showing the options and mention of charging time. If it says charging time in 5 to 6 hours for a 35.8 kwh charging pack, you have the 30 amp charger on board. It it mentions 10 to 12 hours, you have the 3.6kwh charger pack on board.

This only applies to some regions. Here in Ontario we only have 15A 120V and 30A 120V ("30 amp") service in provincial parks (http://www.ontarioparks.com/rv). The "50 amp" (240V) service is only present in some private campgrounds. My understanding is that in general "50 amp" is common in the West and less common in the East.

 

[egolf2017toronto]

Finally found you a TT-30 adapter:
https://evseadapters.com/collections/adapters-for-tesla/products/nema-14-50r-to-tt-30p-adapter

With that one you could charge at whatever rate the eGolf charger caps at or 240V with the 14-50 using either the EVSE I have or a Juice Box. Even if you can only charge at 16A that's faster than 12A...but you'll still have to be charging for longer than a day regardless unless you find a 240V source. I can't test your question because I have an SE.

I've seen this adapter, however, have yet to hear of anyone outside the Tesla community using it for >16A charging at 120V. If you see such a reference please let me know. And even the base Tesla appears to be software-limited to only go up to 20A on 120V, at least in the posts I've seen.

My worry here is that e-Golf charger may be limited to 16A at 120V, as that's the strict interpretation of the J1772 spec. I would love to be able to prove this false.

Jumping through hoops to go from 12A that the VW-included EVSE gives to 16A is just not worth the hassle, at least for me. 24A would be definitely worth it, as it would recharge the battery in 2017 model from empty to full over a typical long nightly stay in a campground.

 

[bizzle]

Finally found you a TT-30 adapter:
https://evseadapters.com/collections/adapters-for-tesla/products/nema-14-50r-to-tt-30p-adapter

With that one you could charge at whatever rate the eGolf charger caps at or 240V with the 14-50 using either the EVSE I have or a Juice Box. Even if you can only charge at 16A that's faster than 12A...but you'll still have to be charging for longer than a day regardless unless you find a 240V source. I can't test your question because I have an SE.

I've seen this adapter, however, have yet to hear of anyone outside the Tesla community using it for >16A charging at 120V. If you see such a reference please let me know. And even the base Tesla appears to be software-limited to only go up to 20A on 120V, at least in the posts I've seen.

My worry here is that e-Golf charger may be limited to 16A at 120V, as that's the strict interpretation of the J1772 spec. I would love to be able to prove this false.

Jumping through hoops to go from 12A that the VW-included EVSE gives to 16A is just not worth the hassle, at least for me. 24A would be definitely worth it, as it would recharge the battery in 2017 model from empty to full over a typical long nightly stay in a campground.

GlennD says in this thread that he tested an OpenEVSE and was able to charge at 30A 120V on his eGolf.

http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=973

If you want to try the one GlennD made for me and it doesn't work for you then you can send it back and I'll refund the $300 so you'd only be out the cost of shipping. He lives a few hours from me so if you ask him to covert the plug to the TT30 or make an adapter (so you can use it with a TT30 or a 14-50) he might be willing to do it for you.

When he made me one, he was only charging for parts just to help fellow EV'ers out. This one I have was his personal EVSE that he didn't need anymore. I also asked for a wall unit and like I said never ended up using the portable one. You can also try and build one, but I don't think you can do it for less than this unit unless OpenEVSE has dropped their prices. The Juice Box 40 is more than double the cost--it's a for-profit company. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think it will have any added functionality than this one.

 

[egolf2017toronto]

After some further conversations with Juicebox support I've decided to purchase a refurbished Juicebox 40 configured to pull 24A on 120V and 40A on 240V. It will come with a 14-50 plug. This would allow me to charge from "50 amp" service at maximum rate possible.

Additionally, I've purchased the NEMA 14-50R to TT-30P adapter referenced earlier in this thread from evseadapters.com. This will allow me to charge from "30 amp" service at the maximum rate possible.

I am keeping fingers crossed that no compatibility issues arise with the 2017 e-Golf charger while using both of the above charging methods. I will report finding after using the products.

Many thanks to everyone here who contributed ideas. You've encouraged me to pursue this less-than-standard L1 and L2 charging configuration. It's very much needed for campground use.

 

[forbin404]

Juicebox's don't play very well with Charging timers...just an FYI.

It's ok for immediate charging, but timer charging? not so well.

Edit : Sorry it's Clipper Creeks.

 

[JoulesThief]

Juicebox's don't play very well with Charging timers..just an FYI.

It's ok for immediate charging, but timer charging? not so well.

JuiceBoxes work fine with timed charges. Clipper Creeks are the ones that didn't play so well with the VW charger on board, on 2015 models.

To the OP, I really just wouldn't mess with 120v and 24 amps recharging. Just seek out and use campgrounds for RV's that accomodate a 14-50 NEMA RV outlet, usually in the 5th wheel and larger motor home pull throughs. Make sure when you plug in your EVSE at a campground pedestal, that the circuit breaker is always in the "OFF " position before plugging in or unplugging your EVSE... ALWAYS...

 

[egolf2017toronto]

I have no intention of ever using any timing features with this setup. Charging usage will be as primitive as it gets. The EVSE will be plugged in upon arriving at the campsite and unplugged in the morning when we park at the trailhead and head to the backcountry.

The perception that somehow persists around 240V 50amp service being widely available is a myth. Here in the Ontario there are 3,000 electrified Ontario Parks sites. How many have 240V service? Exactly 0.00%. Likewise for most private campgrounds. The TT-30 socket is mainstream, so being able to use it to charge at 24A is *hugely* beneficial to the type of road trips we do.